Noooes, my Caine2

I’ve had a little think, and like everyone else I’d like to state a point of view. The errata is not that bad, it’s just really annoying. In the last tournament, where I lost the final game with less than 30 seconds less on our clocks combined, I played Caine2/Haley1, so my current tournament setup got absolutely hammered.

It is indeed!

The Haley1 change was purely to appease the new players, which I can sort of understand, but the change feels rushed and poorly thought out. Haley1 wasn’t really a crucial part of Cygnars tournament scene as a whole, so in the grand scheme of things an inconsequential change. I thought she was powerful but boring, so for me the change means nothing, except as an indicator of worse things to come.

The Haley2 change was really more of a sidegrade. More personal survivability but less support for the army, and the loss of power attack shenanigans makes all her shenanigans even more impressive. Another change that didn’t really affect us in any meaningful way. I actually think I like the new Haley2 more, as I always liked playing her more aggressively but could never figure out how to survive it.

The final change was Caine2, which was a massive – and swift – kick in the balls, but might not be that bad. I think the change was poorly implemented, and rune shots on initial attacks would have been a more elegant solution, which would simultaneous have allowed him to actually use all his spells. As it stands now he’ll keep acting like a ranged super solo, but his support for the army will drop from low to none for most players. I think I’ll be moving in the other direction, and build a list that will focus more on using his spells, but time will tell.

Finally the one thing that really winds me up: There were no buffs for Cygnar. I really thought they would take a look at our useless units, and even a single positive tweak would have made me much happier about this whole thing. A little something for a unit would have been a nice gesture, and it didn’t even have to be a buff since several of our units suffer from clunky rules they could simply have cleaned up, but no. This made me view the nerfs in an extremely unfavorable light, but last night I bought 20 Sword Knights and now the age of Cygnar infantry spam is upon my meta.

Lord Commander Stryker
– Reinholdt
– Thorn
– Lancer
– Lancer
Major Harrison Gibbs
Ragman
Archduke Alain Runewood
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
Sword Knights (Leader & 9 Grunts)
Sword Knights (Leader & 9 Grunts)
Trencher Infantry (Leader & 5 Grunts)
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (Alexia & 9 Risen)
– Captain Jonas Murdoch

I’m unsure if Rhupert should be two Tinkers instead, but I’ll give it a try without repairs, as the jacks don’t really do much anyway, and they’re DEF 13 / ARM 20 against shooting/magic. Now I had JUST found a Caine2 list I really liked, so I’m going to try and work on adapting it to the new reality. The Doom Cannon (Horgenholdt Artillery with Murdoch) suddenly became relevant in a role as anti-infantry, instead of just nuking heavies from orbit, and maybe I need more tools to deal with infantry spam.

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7 Responses »

  1. I’m with you on the changes. Said the same thing to Trevy as well, where is the bottom 5% upgrades???

    That said, I’ve always used Caine for his spells, more than his guns, so not a big whoop there. H1 makes little sense, but as with most Swan players (I think) she was a niche drop for a meta that is often not there.

    Really glad to see you on the Sword Knight train, beautiful models too. I’ll have to post some photos of mine at some point. Personally, I think Rhupert is a necessary evil with that much infantry. Maneuvering without him is a nightmare on a crowded board. Also in the late game, his ability to put tough onto Alexia and crew is amazeballs. Great synergy with Death Magic and just makes them obnoxious as a jamming unit.

  2. Two quick thoughts. First, I think the Caine2 change was intended to make people have to choose between his “modes” as you imply – he can super-solo, OR army support, but not both at the same time. He’ll probably be fine; Caine2 is still a powerful and versatile caster.

    Second, I’m not surprised by the “no buffs for cygnar” thing. The errata really felt like they were trying to just level the playing field, to set the stage for future changes. 90% of the buffs (and nerfs) seem like they were intended to address faction-sized problems, not internal balance. Cygnar has been very strong so far this edition, so the need for buffs isn’t pressing. There’s a practical limit to how much they can test and implement each cycle, at least for the present time.

  3. As your in a unique position of now knowing cryx very well as well as their most difficult opponent, whats your opinion on how much the changes will affect cryx?

    I must admit my support and enthusiasm for this game since mk3 has taken a great bearing. Thr game now feels less enjoyable and more choice of effective units/lists much more restricted. I do have hope though, even though the errata didn’t come close to fixing things for cryx imo the types of changes they are willing to make now show they might get things right.

    • Well, it was an attempt I guess… The changes are mostly things I’ll have to see on the table before passing judgment, but my gut reaction is that it’s not really enough.

      * Asphyxious2 might be back to playable, but only time will really tell if it’s enough.

      * Bane Warriors getting Tough back is not that impressive either, but an additional four models (on average) is not nothing either.

      * Brute Thralls with Shield Guard is a bad attempt at a solution, and a money-grabbing move if I ever saw one, since all the old Cryx players now need to buy 2-3 full boxes to get them.

      * Revenant Crew were already almost worth bringing, so a points cost reduction might make them good in a few lists, but it’s not anything that makes me optimistic.

      * Skarlock Commander is adding even more points to a unit that I don’t feel is really working without the old recursion mechanics. The extreme victim stats of Mechanicthralls is hard to justify, without the ability to launch them far, and the Brute Thralls aren’t durable enough to really abuse Shield Guard to keep them alive.

      * Wraith Engine. Still a no from here.

      A lot of minor buffs/changes, that I don’t feel amount to much. It’s a start I guess, but there’s a long way to go before I’ll consider returning.

      • Not that I want to lose another swan to the evil pirate zombies, but I also really appreciated reading your take on Cryx. Any thoughts about the attempted Jack spam lists they have been pushing for the faction? Are they any good at all? It seems interesting, since they really can fuel them very efficiently and deliver them pretty quickly to the fight. I actually have a ton of Cryx models that a friend donated to the cause, it was a “lousy” army in MK2 because it was mostly jacks, but that might be a thing now. Have you tried messing with any builds?

        • I haven’t, but I’ve played into several Cryx jack builds. They don’t impress me much, with the sole exception of Stalkers which are BRUTAL.

          Edit: Wait, not entirely true. Deneghra3 with Nightmare, WE&SJ, Raiders and a few more jacks was okay. Can’t really melee assassinate her so she can bully a bit.

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