Emotional trauma: WTC testing

Today I began testing my lists against their worst match-ups, but knowing that you’re on the tracks voluntarily doesn’t make the train hit any less painful. Krueger2 is the only match-up I’m certain belongs in the auto-loss category of my WTC notes, so we tried it out first.


I’m still suffering the emotional trauma of last years test phase, because even though I know I’m supposed to lose it starts to wear on you after losing 14 games straight, and only winning games you were supposed to win because the other team mates are on a similar test-losing streak. This morning I got on the tracks with a Deneghra2 Vs. Krueger2 match, and these were my thoughts before the game.

  • I’ve got a gun line that can’t actually shoot him, because my guns depend on debuffs I can’t apply, and because Krueger2 has Stormwall.

I could apply those debuffs if I shot the druid leader, but I can’t shoot him without the debuffs. I could use spells to kill the leader, hellmouthing my own scraps, but double woldstalkers will most likely wipe them out before he commits anything of value to the front, and the druid leader will be behind the others and covered by clouds I cannot circumvent.

  • I’ve got heavies with short threat ranges in melee, and he’s got a control feat that will reduce them to a crawling pace.

I can’t stay back because he’ll push me and win on scenario, and I can’t advance because then he’ll kill two heavies with teleportation + druids + TK + heavies, and use his feat to prevent retaliation of any meaningful kind. I could try running my screen at him full force, and at least make the Druids kill them instead, but with low stats the double Woldstalkers will most likely just wipe them out.

The game

It was like trying to solve a four piece puzzle, where all four pieces had to be the first piece or they wouldn’t fit. I’m not sure I can accurately convey horrible this game was, but the number of lost models on each side should do the job for me…

  • Cryx models destroyed: 22 / 24
  • Circle models destroyed: 0 / 32

After Krueger2 spent his last turns worth of Fury healing his beasts, a grand total of 1 damage remained to prove they had actually been in a fight. Never before have I been so utterly annihilated, and Krueger2 most definitively belongs in the auto-loss category.

My much beloved Skarre1 list won’t fare much better against Krueger2 either, since he has the spells and magical guns to annihilate my Incorporeal models, while his feat gives him time to position and destroy my cavalry elements when they have to enter his range to prevent a scenario loss.

Now I have to go find a Haley1 game… sheesh.

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17 Responses »

  1. hehe show me on the doll where the bad druid touched you ;)

  2. Out of curiosity, what’s the theory behind vetting your lists against their worst possible match-ups? I know you’ve developed a pretty in-depth testing regimen for tourney lists, but what is this intended to prove?

    I only ask because it doesn’t seem like you’d want to drop eDenny against Circle in most cases anyway, with anti-magic abilities and magic weapons being so prevalent in that faction.

  3. Firstly I need to ‘know’ my lists under the worst possible circumstances, because it forces me to investigate every minute detail/synergy, and such intimate knowledge comes in handy when shit hits the fan.

    In the case of my Skarre1 list I’ve won almost every game without breaking a sweat, which means that I’ve yet to use half of her spells and abilities, and I don’t want the WTC to be the first time I use her sacrificial strike or throw a Blood Rain at something.

    Secondly I find that sometimes there’s a difference between theory and reality in a perceived bad match-up. Nine times out of ten it turns out to be just as bad as you expected, or worse like today, but every now and then a match-up turns out to be a lot easier than you thought, which is a HUGE boon in a match-up phase where your opponent is sure he knows what you will be forced to pick.

    • Yeah, ok, that makes sense. Especially as just a mental training thing – trying to find uses for all those corner-case spells and abilities most casters have.

  4. As a circle player and ekruger player myself, could you post the kruger2 list? It’s always interesting to read kruger2 builds.

  5. Lamoron, what do you think would be a decent Cryx warcaster (and possibly list) to drop against 2Krueger?

    I’ve faced him before with eDenny and the experience was similar to yours. I not sure if a pDenny gun line is viable either. Terminus, while his army is probably able to weather the circle shooting, is still a dangerous drop because 2Krueger has enough movement tricks to expose Terminus and a primaled Gehtorix has pretty good odds of killing him. The main problems that 2Krueger appears to present is a control feat (which messes up melee infantry swarms), anti magic through druids (which messes up the Dennys), armor cracking through ghetorix and storm wall (making shooting quite difficult).

    I have found Nyss Hunters particularly useful against him, because their DEF is high enough to remain safe against wold stalker shooting and hunter helps pick off druids early in the game.

    • Goreshade2 all stealth grind list could also work if you can avoid losing on scenario in round two and three. Nyss Hunters are indeed effective, and a well rounded Deneghra1 list with Nyss and Bane Thralls could probably work.

      A Kraken with additional ARM could also present Krueger2 with some unpleasant choices, as it’s basically immune to a lot of the thing he does, and isn’t likely to die even to a teleporting Ghetorix.

  6. eSkarre goes alright, just need to watch the Druids counter magic bubble for getting perdition targets

  7. I find my Mortenebra list (Bloat Thralls/lots of AD scraps/DJ/2 harrowers list) to be an excellent universal Circle drop. It scares them SHITLESS to find a list that’s faster than them, and that can delete druids off the board with a rain of AoE problem solving. There is just so much in that list Circle doesn’t have an answer to, and you don’t have to play your caster far enough forward to risk death. Finally, don’t forget that you can Void Gate scrap thralls to position the AoE in interesting places – beasts in it can’t be forced. If you need to hold a zone, sometimes the DJ is better off casting this than eating something.

  8. One thing that interests me is that EKreuger is considered a Cryx killer at all. In a faction that has Kromac and P Kreuger they would be the favoured drops. So is this a trial to see what would happen if you basically lost at list chicken? As I think the Naval company has a decent shot at the usual Kromac and P Kreuger builds.

    • Kruger2 is fantastic in a lot of other matches so the fact that he handles cryx pretty well is just a bonus. You very well could see kromac and kruger2 in a pairing along with emorv. It gives the circle player more options on drop.

    • I just think I’m more likely to encounter Krueger2, and I think I can handle Kromac if there’s no Pureblood Warpwolf in his list. Krueger1 is annoying, but I think I can handle him in most of the setups I’ve seen, and Morvahna2 in the current popular setups has it rough against Skarre1.

      I think Krueger2/Morvahna2 setups will be plentiful this year as well, and me being traumatized by Craig Conroy last year makes me want to prepare for that situation… though in this case preparation is going to be the act of writing Krueger2 on my impossible match-ups slip for the team captain :D

  9. You know I’ve been bitching a lot about eKrueger in the past Lamoron (I still do a lot, and I don’t think it’s going to stop any time soon :-)), and I get your frustration. EKrueger and phaley is the worst there is. The hours I’ve clocked in thinking about what to do about those two specific matchups exceed the time thinking about all the other casters by far, and I have absolutely nothing to show for it :-)

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