The road so far…

Back home from the worst vacation in my life, and with the tribute page to the World Community Army in place, it’s time to tell you a little bit about what I’ve been doing the last couple of months. In short, I’ve been tearing out my hair trying to build a list that complements Skarre1, while being interesting enough to keep me entertained during the months of training to come.

failure.gif

Months of frustration…

I’ve been trying several different casters, several different builds, and I’ve been grinding theory until my eyes bled, but everything so far has ended in some kind of failure. The first attempt was Deneghra1 which I wrote a bit about in the beginning of this test cycle, and to be honest a faster player than me could really do something with this build.

Warwitch Deneghra
– Deathripper
– Deathripper
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
– Skarlock Commander
Mechanithralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
– Skarlock Commander
Necrosurgeon (Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls)
Necrosurgeon (Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls)
The Withershadow Combine
Aiakos, Scourge of Meredius
Lord Rockbottom
Dougal MacNaile
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren

The list is actually technically undefeated, but in every game I’ve kept the clock on to see how much time I was using, and I’ve only managed not to time out once. In a serious tournament game I would be giving my opponent a huge advantage, because when my time is running low a good opponent will play my clock instead of my list, and I will lose that game.

Goreshade3

I abandoned Deneghra1 and turned my attention on Goreshade3 for a little while, but I quickly realized that Character Restrictions made him less than optimal (Skarre1 is hogging his stuff). In addition Goreshade3 didn’t really complement Skarre1 in the way I would like, and every alternate build I tried failed badly.

I’ve been considering a really strange list using double Leviathans (one run by Aiakos), because the opportunities granted by the feat and Siphon Bolt could be worth exploring, but I’ve not gotten around to actually doing that because again the models he would need are hogged by Skarre1.

Skarre2

I turned my attention to Skarre2, because I really wanted a ranged game in my setup, and for a while I thought I was on to something. I tried a bit with the Kraken, but found that the lists I would need her to handle had spell immunities, stealth, druids, or some other way of blocking the Black Spot turn of doom.

I considered a more standard approach with Deathjack/Nightmare, but after a few games with Nightmare in the setup I found that his assassination game was fairly easily blocked when I couldn’t unjam him, and unjamming him was harder than expected. In addition a lot of the models I would bring with her were Incorporeal, and the list covers Skarre1 by dealing with opponents who can handle massed Incorporeal.

Deneghra2

A classic choice, and still on the theory table, Deneghra2 always does well enough. The main problem is that her Incorporeal is worth almost nothing, and that Darragh Wrathe is stuck with Skarre1. I find that Death Ride on Deneghra2 is the difference between ‘awesome’ and ‘alright’, but she’s a caster that can bring guns, and I’m still playing around with this list.

Wraith Witch Deneghra
– Deathripper
– Deathripper
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
The Withershadow Combine
Aiakos, Scourge of Meredius
– Leviathan
Bane Lord Tartarus
Gorman di Wulfe
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren

A fair ranged game, some solid melee, and of course some nasty spells, but it doesn’t really solve my problem with opponents who can handle massed infantry. The variation of the list I ran with Wrong Eye & Snapjaw + Bokur, instead of Aiakos/Leviathan, was taken apart at range and then brought down in melee later.

Scaverous

In my frustration I turned to my old love Scaverous. I’ve never won a timed game with Scaverous, but I’ve only ever lost a single game where the clock was turned off (and my list in that game was silly), so I thought maybe I’d grown as a player since then. I built a list and took it out for a spin last night, where I lost the game we had on the clock, and won the game we played without one.

It… well I guess… back to the drawing board then. I’m still not letting Scaverous go, but the list I had constructed was obviously a wee bit complicated, though I think I might be on to something using Aiakos with a Stalker in his lists. The combination of double TK, Icy Grip, Feast of Worms, Escort, and a fully loaded Stalker from 16.5″ away just seems so nasty.

Alternate ideas…

Then of course we have the theory machine running. It’s mainly playing with Goreshade2 stealth spam, seeing as I then have a lightning fast Incorporeal spam list, and a slow but hard hitting Stealth spam list. In theory this should make it really hard to pick a list against me, and the Phantom Seeker Kraken should give me a bit of game against Haley1.

Goreshade the Cursed, Tier3
– Kraken
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
The Withershadow Combine
Bane Lord Tartarus
Necrotech (Necrotech & Scrap Thrall)
Necrotech (Necrotech & Scrap Thrall)
Necrotech (Necrotech & Scrap Thrall)
Scrap Thralls (3 Scrap Thralls)
Scrap Thralls (3 Scrap Thralls)
Scrap Thralls (3 Scrap Thralls)
Skarlock Thrall

Terrain will punish this list like crazy, but it’s also really difficult to remove entirely, and with 12 Scrap Thralls and Elite Cadre the army should slowly destroy everything while keeping their numbers up. The main issues here would be boredom and Death Clock, but it remains to be seen whether it’s as bad as I think it will be. I’ve also considered The Coven, and Asphyxious3 is also rummaging around in there.

I hope this catches you guys up on current events, but naturally my motivation for writing has been a bit limited, since I’ve felt more like blowtorching the guy who thought Character Restrictions would make the game more interesting. With a bit of luck I’ll find something before the WTC deadline, and otherwise is an age old Lamoron tradition to lock in lists I’ve never really tried.

 

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60 Responses »

  1. The Skarre1 build uses Saxon, Blackbanes and Darragh Wrathe, correct?

    What about Lich1? He can tank, one-round heavies and Colossals, has a round about control option with clouds. You have Tartarus and Gorman free to debuff DEF/buff MAT. The only real hit the is taking is not having Saxon and you can play around that with army selection if you’re willing to suck down the fact that it mostly affects him personally. The caster and list gives you a hugely flexible game plan as an all-comers list that you can drop if you’re not willing to play the Incorporeal rort with Skarre.

    Build from a base of self-problem solving selections and range of solos?

    Bane Riders, Blood Witches, arc nodes, Sirens, Raiders, Tartarus, Gorman, Raider Captains. Maybe even Bane Knights (not my preferred option personally). Has great flexibility and replayability but can also lock into “Plan A” quite easily without you overthinking. His Feat is extremely simple but massively changeable and can solve that one high DEF/low ARM enemy unit issue incredibly well combined with Parasite.

    • You will die of boredom playing Goreshade2. It’s undoubtedly effective and you will get a game, but your brain will switch off completely. He lacks flair and imagination – that just isn’t your scene, right?

    • Worth a trip through the theory machine. I did play Asphyxious1 for a while and did fairly well with him, but ranged attacks isn’t really his thing, and I already have speed and armor cracking with Skarre1, though the infantry removal could be useful in Cygnar match-ups. It doesn’t really solve my dudespam issue, though maybe running him with Aiakos and Wrong Eye could solve that. I’ll give it a whirl through ye old noggin!

  2. Well unless I’ve missed something, your Morty build you theorycrafted a while back has none of the characters in your pSkarre list, so there is that. With the Inflictor potentially somewhere on the horizon there is some new life there (although god knows when it will actually come out, so ugh) and it’s obviously very different from the infantry/cavalry builds Skarre normally rolls with.

    Coven might work if you don’t mind the cavalry overlap.

    eDenny is always good, you can pretty much build her any which way you like and come up with something effective. Handles a lot of tricky matchups too. Building a list from the ground up, you’ll definitely have something.

    • I suspect Mortenebra army will begin and end with “… but Colossals”.

      Would have suggested Coven or eDenny but then the pairing ends up looking very soft to Continuous Fire (Menoth/Legion) and Issyria with Aiyana and Holt and Strike Force/Hyperion.

      What are the holes with Skarre1 that the off-list needs to cover? Suffers from magic attacks negating Incorporeal (A+H, Naga, Explosivo et al), lots anti-infantry removal, and it’s all melee. It otherwise manages terrain well, hits high DEF and has one turn of destroying armour (assuming you manage to Feat offensively). How much will it struggle against a control list?

      • Skarre1 mainly suffers against Bethayne, Cain1, Severius1, and others with the ‘juice’ to handle 21 Incorporeal models in a single turn. It did beat Bethayne with a defensive feat, as her lists tend to be quite squishy, but it was certainly an uphill battle.

        It hasn’t really struggled that much against control lists, because of the insane speed and massed Incorporeal, but of course it’s not auto-win like it is in some match-ups, and control feat + magic, spells doom for the list (like Krueger2).

        The list actually destroys many of the Menoth fire lists, which was something of a surprise, and it even rampaged through eFeora. The thing is that Incorporeal means immune to continuous effects, and 75% of the list either is, or can turn, Incorporeal (timing is important though).

        Mortenebra has been rummaging around in my head as well, but as you said ‘Colossals’… it doesn’t mean she’s off the table, it just means that I don’t think my old build will work.

        • It does depend on what matchups you intend for Morty to handle though, because if Skarre is handling most of the builds where you expect to regularly see a colossal/gargantuan, then you’re fine.

          e.g. Most trolls, minions, legion, circle matchups, and in any multi-list format, you’ll know right away if there’s a colossal there or not anyway so it shouldn’t exactly be a surprise.

          I agree that it doesn’t necessarily make it the best pairing, but simply mentioning for completeness sake. Without having really given your pSkarre build an extensive run through I wouldn’t have the audacity to start dolling out matchup pairings, but if she’s handling colossal lists just fine (as I suspect she might) then it might not be much of a concern.

          Just thoughts as always :) I predict Denny will still end up as your choice when push comes to shove :p

  3. Scaverous with Darragh Wrathe? Would be a shame to not have “tank mode” as a viable option. You’d also have to do some very fast talking to convince me he’s a viable ranged caster option (janky TK/Croe’s stuff aside).

    I otherwise think he would be a winner on a lot of counts, but you would need to accept going into the game with a toolbox of ‘set plays’ rather than riding by the seat of your pants every time which means you get a lot less wacky Scaverous TK Rube-Goldberg wins and more Excarnate + TK + DeathRide / Tartarus + Curse + TK thresher wins”.

    It’s the difference between cycling through well-rehearsed Plans A, B, C etc and having to do all the hard thinking within the framework of the actual game you’re playing (and therefore burning the precious clock). You’d also want to be making the call on Scaverous sooner rather than later because the practice time really needs to be optimised as well for more fluid and automatic play which means less time for theorymachine and bouncing around different caster options.

    Also – style points win bonus respect extravaganza if you take him to the WTC.

    • Darragh Wrathe is pretty darn important in my Skarre1 list, adding to the Incorporeal theme with Soulhunters, turning the armor up to ridiculous with Beyond Death (ARM 19-20 Incorporeal models jamming is FUN), and adding a vital inch to the Cavalry… he’s not going anywhere :D

      Yeah time is running out for indecision indeed…

  4. I am having a similar issue. WTC deadline is late August and I only really have my dudespam recursion PSkarre list dialled in.

    I am adopting a different approach though.

    I am going with lists with as few moving parts as possible. I suspect I will be getting very drunk and will be feeling the effects of Polish hospitality during my games. So to hell with my usual circus act lists. Boring and straight forward for me!

    PSkarre game plan. Turn one: Run. Turn Two: If there isn’t much heavy armour on the table, feat defensively. If there is heavy armour held in reserve, jam and then counter feat/charge. If the army is nothing but heavy armour. Feat and smash! Turn three onwards: Hang on to zones for dear life. If the caster leaves a gap, Pow 18 skarre bomb and hellfire.

    My other list is the Goreshade 2 Kraken list. But I have decided to go out of tier so I can bring back the blood hag with the feat. I think its a nice anti menoth and troll set up. (A big deal in the UK Meta) Again very simple to use. run forth. The two armies meet in the middle. I kill his stuff and get more banes. He kills my stuff. I feat back the stuff he just killed. I kill his stuff. The kraken gets phantom hunter and nails solos until the caster presents itself.

    The third list is where I am struggling. I’m torn between an E-Denny mass RFP /gunline, a Mortenebra “Surprise muthafucka!” Tom Guan caster kill list. Or a Terminus “bully” list. At the minute the E-Denny list seems the most appealing as its plan doesn’t start and end with “Run at them and punch them”.

    • You’re attending the solo masters? I’m thinking a no brainer list will work well, which is why I’m also considering Goreshade2, but I’m not sure I can survive the training phase.

      • Yup. I’m gunning for the fanciest wooden spoon in Warmachine!

        The thing is, I thought that when I built the Skarre list. But all of my wins so far have come from Rube Goldberg caster kills rather than the attrition she is supposed to be famed for.

        Think of it this way. You can practise unusual plays with a standard list and catch people off guard. Bane Cav add a lovely layer of unpredictable threat as they are just so mobile between Curse of shadows and ghostly.

        • The Incorporeal spam list usually wins on caster kills as well :)

          • Oddly I am going with incorporeal spam almost by accident. I really wanted something that just nailed all the recursion and EMorv/Gaspy/Shade into the ground while remaining balanced. And it just so happens The RFP comes from models with incorporeal!

            Wraith Witch Deneghra (*6pts)
            * Deathripper (4pts)
            * Deathjack (12pts)
            * Skarlock Thrall (2pts)
            Blackbane’s Ghost Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
            Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
            Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
            * Satyxis Blood Hag (2pts)
            Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
            Machine Wraith (1pts)
            Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts)
            Pistol Wraith (3pts)
            Pistol Wraith (3pts)

  5. I forgot my Deneghra2 triple Leviathan build! Denny2, 2× Nightwretch, 2× Leviathan, Aiakos w. Leviathan, Wrong Eye & Snapjaw, 3× Necrotech, Skarlock, and 2× Sirens. Going to proxy that tomorrow if I can get a game :D

    • An erm…interesting skew. What do you intend to match this up against?

      • Mostly I’m thinking it could be hilarious if it worked, but beyond that I haven’t given it much thought :D

      • After giving it some thought…

        I’m thinking most casters can’t allow themselves to get within 18″ of the Leviathans, because of Feat and Marked for Death, unless they’re at full camp, which can really hamper some casters.

        I’m also thinking most of the list is immune to the things that really annihilate dudespam, though Aiakos will have to play it really safe somewhere down behind the lines.

        I’m sure it won’t work as a generalist list, but when I think about the problematic match-ups my Skarre1 list has, it might not be that stupid after all (though Deneghra is horribly vulnerable in this build).

      • Also considered -1 Siren and -1 Necrotech, in order to add 9 Scrap Thralls (11 in total), for even more hilarity.

        • I’m super keen to see how this triple leviathan build goes. Personally I’d prob switch out aiakos + levi + WE + SJ for a kraken and something else, or even WE + SJ for nyss hunters, but still, I’m very keen to see how it goes.
          let us know when you can man!

  6. If your looking to Cryx different rather than Cryx harder then something like the new eDenny tier could fit the bill

    eDenny T4
    Wraith Witch Deneghra – WJ: +6
    – Skarlock Thrall – PC: 2
    – Deathjack – PC: 12
    – Deathripper – PC: 4
    – Nightmare – PC: 10

    Warwitch Siren – PC: 2
    Warwitch Siren – PC: 2
    Ragman – PC: 2

    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges – Mind Slaver & 5 Grunts: 3
    Cephalyx Overlords – Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
    Cephalyx Overlords – Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges – Mind Slaver & 5 Grunts: 3
    Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges – Mind Slaver & 5 Grunts: 3
    Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – Necrosurgeon & 3 Grunts: 2
    Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – Necrosurgeon & 3 Grunts: 2
    Mechanithralls – Leader & 5 Grunts: 3

    The list is insane, it might look like dude spam but it’s not as you don’t care about drudges dying at all.

    • What is the reason for not using full units of mind slaver and drudges?

      • As you might know, I’m trying out the new tier list as well, but my list is a bit different. It’s a tier 4 body and soul list:

        Wraith Witch Deneghra – WJ: +6
        – Skarlock Thrall
        – Deathjack – PC: 12
        – Ripjaw – PC: 5

        Ragman – PC: 2
        Warwitch Siren – PC: 2
        Warwitch Siren – PC: 2

        Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges – Mind Slaver & 9 Grunts: 5
        Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges – Mind Slaver & 9 Grunts: 5
        Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges – Mind Slaver & 9 Grunts: 5
        Cephalyx Overlords – Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
        Mechanithralls – Leader & 5 Grunts: 3
        Mechanithralls – Leader & 5 Grunts: 3
        Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – Necrosurgeon & 3 Grunts: 2
        Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – Necrosurgeon & 3 Grunts: 2
        Cephalyx Overlords – Leader & 2 Grunts: 3

        • The drudges arnt there to actually do anything except die in creative ways so just the min amount seems to work best, also min drudge units don’t suffer as much when the cephalyx eventually dies and they become command 4.

          The main work that tends to happen in the list are sprays and hellmouths killing off infantry before a combination of feat and pursuit delivers your heavies into theirs or their caster with the pile of mechanithralls you’ve created mopping up late game.

          • I’ve actually decided to play your list at the danish masters coming up in less than a month now. I have already committed to it by buying all the stuff needed that I couldn’t borrow from friends. So now… I just have to paint a shitload of cephalyx and drudges :)

            I haven’t tried playing this version of the list yet, so I was hoping you could give me some advice. Any matchups I should stay away from? How do I go about keeping my heavies safe while moving up the board? My heavies always seem to get in trouble :D

          • I have played this list a bit and seen it played a fair amount as well as a solid amount of theory machine, in my experience the worst couple of games I’ve come across was Harby and Issyria, in both those games you tend to trade models very poorly and they both threaten Deneghra which is generally the weakest point of the list.

            While I haven’t played them eLylyth seems like a baldish one but there’s a good chance they’d probably opt for vayl2 given the chance, though again that seems like a less than ideal game with her impressive assassination potential, trivial upkeep removal and generally strong ranged game.

            One of the strongest parts of the list is its effect on list chicken, your almost always going to end up playing the list with upkeep removal as otherwise pursuit just becomes to much for your opponent to deal with.

            On keeping your heavies safe it shouldn’t be too hard as with stealth nightmare should be fairly safe from most range and death jacks quite tanky. The key is to hang them back until you need them, early game nightmare should be nowhere near the front line, deathjack can be used to hellmouth targets but only if it won’t get him killed.
            There shouldn’t be a real need to commit the jacks until most of the drudges have been ground down, ideally this should be around feat turn where you want to set up heavies to kill their most important stuff and lock down them down to prevent them doing anything about it.

            Remember to use hellmouths to drag charge targets for jacks closer or to drag your jacks towards the enemy.
            It’s a list you can afford to be cautious with and it will reward you well for it as well offering a get out of jail card through her feat.

          • You have some valid points, and solid advice. Most of what you are talking about is actually stuff I have been thinking about myself. The list chicken thing is nice to remember though, and very valid in the list selection phase.

            The bad matchups you mention are also pretty clear. Regarding Hellmouth. It’s a nice trick that I’ve been using a couple of times myself as well :)

            I’m teaming the list up with Lich2, which I think is pretty solid. Now I just need to find a third list.Initially I was hoping for this list to be playable against a pHaley + SW list, but lately I’m starting to doubt it.

            My third list then just needs to be something that has a fighting chance against pHaley + SW and the std eKrueger list ^^ Good luck to meLOL :D

        • Any ideas for Nightmares prey?

          • If there’s something obvious like mulg a colossal or a high def heavy, if not the caster is always a good choice as feat and run next to caster tends to end most games.

  7. I would give that Coven list you theoried out on the PP fourms. I only got to play it once and my biggist mastake was horrendously misjudging distance on the kraken and ragman which got me the big loss in a game with butcher3. I would like to see how well that list goes in a more capable players hand.

    • Problem with that list is, that it doesn’t really solve the problems Skarre1 has.

      • I admittedly am not good at picking up good or bad match ups till I experience them but from that sounds of it. It sounds like as lazarus mentipned Morty might be your girl with all the jacks. The only thing I can think of a problem though is lists that can shoot off a jack eaisly which might mean no answer to cain.

        I enjoy Tom Guans Assasination list which would be only using DJ and Nightmare of characters but from your TeamATL podcast I dont know how well it does against ranged matchups.

  8. In general a problem with taking that new list to a tourney is all the new painting and buying you have to do since most cryx players dont have 3 units of drudges at hand

  9. Do you really need Saxon Orrik in your Skarre1-list?

    Otherwise Goreshade2 with Bane Thralls, Blood Witches and Saxon Orrik works quite well.

    What problems do you (or the list in general) have with Skarre1?
    Could you specify that?

    • Difficult question, and one I’ve been struggling with. The fact is that in most games Saxon does nothing, and even got himself sacrificed by the Skarlock a couple of times.

      In other games he’s been the difference between winning and losing, because he allows Skarre to charge from behind linear obstacles, and because the Mechanithrall wave has serious trouble with terrain.

  10. Your Skarre list actually has a lot in common with the Goreshade3 list I pair with my main, Mortenebra. I don’t play the Tom Guan list, though, I play something both more “traditional” (tier 4) and more “Aron Figaro” (really, really weird).

    Disclaimer: I really love Harrowers.

    Mortenebra
    – Derylyss
    – Harrower
    – Harrower
    – Deathjack
    – Stalker
    – Slayer
    – Reaper
    2 Warwitch Sirens
    2 Bloat Thralls
    2 Necrotechs + Scrap Thralls
    9 Scrap Thralls

    When the Inflictor comes out, Slayer + Reaper out for Inflictor+Scavenger.

    I will pretty confidently drop this list against anything, but it has some trouble with bricks (Skarre1 handles that), and armor heavy Warmachine (Skarre1 again). This is a GREAT Circle drop, Legion drop, and in many cases Skorne drop, and does pretty well against Stormwall (er, Cygnar) by having a strong ranged assassination threat with the Harrowers. Overruns into double boosted Ghost Shots are great.

    Why the Scrappies? Pressure. Advance Deploying 11 scrap thralls against a lot of lists creates PRESSURE. Especially against Circle, where they have two situations:
    1. Going first, they have to worry about their Stones’ deployment position, knowing they have to kill 11 models turn 1 or keep their stones WAY farther back than they want.
    2. Going second, you get to tell them where to put their stones. ;)

    This applies just as well to Errants (which can also be eaten by the Deathjack, then you can Overrun back), Doomies (they die on 8s!), etc. Bloat Thrall carpet bombing also helps quite a bit, and don’t forget they’re also known as the Grenade Weapon Attachment for Slayers. ;)

    Overall the only thing I’m not 100% on in this list, even after playing it for two years, is the Slayer, but I’ve never felt a Scavenger and a Necrotech (option B, really) has ever brought as much to the table as the extra heavy beatstick and set of open fists.

    YMMV but this list is a lot better than it looks. It has options people have difficulty finding at a glance, and deals VERY well with doodspam.

  11. Regardless of it working on not I’d be interested in your scavvy list I’m having troubles nailing something down.

    Character restrictions do create a lot of problems, I find it hard making lists without DW, but on the flip side it does mean every list we face doesn’t include eyris and A&H.

    • Sure, though remember that this is created with my current CR issues in mind, and the list has zero options beyond distance or camping for keeping Scaverous alive.

      Lord Exhumator Scaverous
      – Deathripper
      – Deathjack
      Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
      – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
      Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
      The Withershadow Combine
      Aiakos, Scourge of Meredius
      – Stalker
      Bane Lord Tartarus
      Skarlock Thrall

      I was going to experiment with Bane Riders next (because of Death Ward and the stupid threat ranges they can achieve with TK), backed up by Bile Thralls and Nyss, but I didn’t get around to figuring out what sort of ARM cracking that list should include.

      • TK aside, why not just go pDeneghra with that list, trading out Deathjack and Stalker for Leviathan or Harrower on Aiakos + a second arc node (and you might even be able to fit in Gorman or a Siren)? Or just run Aiakos as a combat solo punching like a boss under Feat/Crippling Grasp or Parasite and add in solos for flavour (double Siren?).

        It punches, it shoots, it assassinates. Broad and flexible, tactically interesting. It has plenty of Stealth and high DEF. If you aren’t happy dropping it against a gunline/anti-stealth then chances are you wouldn’t be happy if it was Scaverous instead of Deneghra anyway.

        I hear old school is the new black and pDenny still ruins lives like she used to. Might make your drop even more straight-forward – can the enemy remove upkeeps and/or cast offensive upkeeps? Boom – pDenny combined arms solves your problems.

        • Sure I could go old school Deneghra1 shooting, or Deneghra2 shooting for that matter, which also is where I’m likely to end up anyway, given the way things are going.

          I don’t feel like they’re solving the issues completely though. I didn’t feel like the current Scaverous build was solving the issue either, which is why I was going to experiment with a high ARM build instead, but I’m going to give my triple Leviathan Deneghra2 list a go first.

  12. I too second pdenny.

    My fall back denny list:

    pDenny
    -skarlock
    -deathripper
    -deathripper

    Aikos
    -Leviathan

    Master Gunner MacNaile
    Warwitch
    Warwitch

    Max Nyss
    Max Croes

    Min Mcthralls
    Necrosurgeon
    Necrosurgeon

    It boasts a reasonably high model count but plays quite quickly given they way it’s layered (mcthralls don’t do much until end game for example). I find after a turn of crippling grasp, parasite and feat they will be low on model count and turns time increases. There’s always assassination as well.

    • I agree with Lamoron’s original decision to go Boomhowlers over Croe’s. The rest of it’s pretty close to what I’m playing, but I often pull out more Defilers for spray goodness on feat turn.

  13. I was experimenting with a combined arms list for Goreshade3 (my new love, sorry Lich2). What characters are you using for skarre1? My Shade3 lists tend to be character light. Maybe something like this?

    Goreshade, Lord of Ruin (*5pts)
    * Deathripper (4pts)
    * Harrower (10pts)
    * Skarlock Thrall (2pts)
    Bane Riders (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
    Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
    Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
    * Satyxis Blood Hag (2pts)
    The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
    Machine Wraith (1pts)
    Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile (2pts)
    Warwitch Siren (2pts)

    • The problem isn’t so much building a Goreshade3 list that works (yours is looking very interesting though), as it is building a list that complements Skarre1. My list needs to fulfill the following list of demands:

      1. It must either be mainly stealth, or tough enough to withstand the traditional low powered gun lines and massed spell slinging. This makes infantry spam really hard, but not impossible.

      2. It must be a list I can run on Death Clock. In general once the list reaches about 40 models I’m in trouble, and 50+ has proven impossible for me.

      3. It must include a ranged element. I’m pretty open to suggestions here, but Pistol Wraiths are no-go, since the list must handle match-ups where my Incorporeal spam list is threatened.

      4. It may not use Darragh Wrathe, Saxon Orrik, Ghost Raiders or Cankerworm.

      • I would say go for Goreshade2 with Kraken.

        Goreshade2
        – Kraken
        Bane Thralls + UA
        Tartarus
        3x 3 Scrap Thralls
        Necrotech + Scrap Thrall
        something else

        If you play non-tier, try to add Saxon Orrik (as Bane Thralls struggle with terrain). If you play tier, just add more Banes.

        If you add Bane Rider, bring an arcnode, as Curse of Shadows should be quite good with them (and surprising for your opponent). If this is will be to expensive, drop the Kraken for a Leviathan.

        • It’s been considered, and it would solve my problems (I think), but can I stomach playing such a boring list for months? Maybe… it would certainly make things easier.

  14. Hey mate,
    Asking a cryx list not to care about the mass pow10’s is probably one of the hardest things going for us. There are a few casters or options:

    Terminus
    Gore3
    Morty

    Terminus:
    Build termy not to have darragh. Its not optimal but not bad. If you are going against ret/cyg darragh isnt a massive deduction. Maybe use the list similar to the guy that won a major con early in the year?
    I think he had termy, WE&SJ, Kraken, support to taste. Pretty hard for pow 10’s to take those 3 out and termy or kraken with ravager can clean up the infantry. Mass infantry is a pretty good match up with him.

    Gore3. You dont need blackbanes IMO or darragh. He is pretty flexible. Remember his feat works on friendlies so you can just use mass cheap models to jam then feat:

    Gore 3
    – Harrower or Nightmare
    – Scarlock
    Press Gangers max
    Press Gangers max
    First mate Hawk
    Bane Riders
    WE&SJ
    Madelyn
    Gorman
    WSC or Biles or node

    PGs are like suedo weapon masters with hawk. ST gets them at mat 7 pow13 with 4 dice to warrior models… bye bye any infantry and dints in mdm arm jacks.. Take any infantry out of the game. You can use mockery on the bane riders. Madelyn for the assassination threat. WSC to help with the assassination or you might want biles. Aim is to jam with the PGs (20 models with tough is hard to kill) and feat to stall his advance.

    Morty:
    If inflictors come out soon, run something like this:
    Morty
    – Dery
    – DJ
    – Inflictor
    – Inflictor
    – Harrower
    – Levi
    – stalker
    – stalker
    SIren
    Siren
    You have had a lot more morty time than me so no news there. I think the inflictors have increased her game ALOT in the attrition area (rather than just assassination). the extra focus is really really good to increase their work output. Also the crit poison can half shot angels or stalkers with feat up.

    • I can’t rely on the Inflictor, as it’s still not on the August release list (otherwise I would be seriously considering Mortenebra), but iAvians Terminus list is rummaging around my noggin as well. We did battle in the WTC 2013, and my Terminus brought down his Deneghra2, so he would probably love that I copied his list :D

      I’m still going to try my Deneghra2 triple Leviathan build (could be hilarious if Anthony/IAvian and I met in a reverse battle in WTC 2014), but that Goreshade3 list isn’t looking half bad either.

  15. A pDenny eSkarre or even eGaspy is probably your best bet but if you want a more interesting eShade list this is what I run currently.

    Goreshade the Cursed – WJ: +5
    – Leviathan – PC: 9
    – Deathripper – PC: 4

    Scrap Thralls – PC: 1
    Scrap Thralls – PC: 1
    Scrap Thralls – PC: 1
    Bane Lord Tartarus – PC: 4

    Bane Thralls – Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
    – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard 0
    Bane Thralls – Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
    – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard 3
    The Withershadow Combine – Malevolus, Admonia, & Tremulus: 5
    Bane Riders – Leader & 4 Grunts: 11

  16. I’ve been toying around with the following as a companion to my Denny1 incorp spam and it might be a decent starting point. It definitely took a mental shift to consider Terminus as the counterpunch point rather than “tank like a boss” but missing beyond death, while noticeable for the camp game, doesn’t make him unuseable.

    Terminus
    -Levi
    -Levi
    Aiakos
    -Levi
    Bane riders max
    Bile thralls min
    Wither shadow

    This leaves 3 points for scenario pieces, which is where I’m currently waffling. Normally, machine wraith for the win, but as I want this to be the “you magic weapons, they do nothing” drop, I’ve been toying around with scrappies, and the next test is a strange one and actually running 3 necroteks to emphasize the “you must come to me” and into range of the riders and/or biles depending on what they want to push with.

    • Another triple Leviathan build showing up is pretty darn epic! The Naval Company is currently hogging the spot as my possible second list, and it also features triple Leviathans :D

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