NIFCON: Preparations

Next weekend is NIFCON (don’t ask me what it’s short for, because nobody seems to know, and I’m assuming it’s not the Network for International Faith Concerns), aaaand I’m just about ready.

I’ve been juggling NIFCON lists for so long, that actually having them done is a relief beyond words, and I’m also nearly done with actually painting them. True to form I’m going to a major tournament with two lists I have barely any experience with, and with the two Cryx casters responsible for most of my lost games to date (why do I always end up doing that?).

Wraith Witch Deneghra
– Deathripper
– Deathripper
– Helldiver
– Helldiver
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
The Withershadow Combine
Bane Lord Tartarus
Darragh Wrathe
General Gerlak Slaughterborn
Gorman di Wulfe
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Wrong Eye
– Snapjaw

I’m still undecided on specialists. I’m thinking it should be a lot of utility models like Machine Wraiths, Orin Midwinter, Scrapp Thralls (if I can find the time to buy and paint them), Sirens, Pistol Wraiths, or something like that.

The Witch Coven of Garlghast
– Deathripper
– Deathripper
– Helldiver
– Helldiver
– Reaper
Bane Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
– Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Blackbane’s Ghost Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Pistol Wraith
Pistol Wraith
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren

Equally undecided on specialists, but Saxon Orrik should probably be there in case I get some heavy terrain or Inhospitable Ground casters. Blood Witches should probably be there as well, in case I completely misjudge a match-up and end up with a heavy offensive upkeep caster.

The tournament is a three-man team tournament, so I’m going to Sac Pawn any pHaley matches to someone else, but should I get her anyway it will probably be up to eDeneghra to camp her way through it, and hope I haven’t lost on scenario when my Helldivers get in there to try for her.

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18 Responses »

  1. I do like the lists (Helldivers are scary), but I have a couple of questions.

    What are you going to use the Reaper for? Did you just pack it for the threat range or the 7-point medium jack? (I hesitate to call it a heavy)

    More to the point, and slightly related to the above, don’t you think the Withershadow Combine would be a better fit for the Witch Coven list? Maybe dropping a Siren and a Wraith. You get the magic shooting attacks, the Witches have more sure-thing upkeeps than eDenny does, it keeps the stealth theme, you get some hard-hitting power against jacks that the Coven normally lacks (goes great with the Reaper!), and Puppet Master is great for helping auto-trigger Shadow Bind where you really need it (critical for the Helldiver kill turn).

    The 5 points in the eDenny list could be used for a couple extra utility solos or, with some finagaling, the Blood Witches you wanted in the Coven list.

    Thoughts?

    • Short version: I completely agree with everything you said.

      Longer version: I don’t think The Coven are actually any good these days. They can nuke rookie players on round one, and they can do incredibly tricks, but the game they play isn’t at all suited to a reality with Colossals, aggressive camper casters, and attrition wars.

      I can’t see the Coven winning on scenario unless the opponent really fucks up. I can’t see them winning on attrition either, so it’s basically down to assassination, and these days that’s just hard against anyone with half a clue.

      In reality the Coven list is just there for show, and in case we lose the first couple of rounds so I can have some fun. I’ve also been informed that my team mate will not be needing Madelyn Corbeau after all, so when I’m done strangling his cat and torching his miniatures, I’ll begin looking at the options that opens up.

      • Sorry but I have to disagree, the Coven are a strong niche caster with a habit of spell assassination. But to say they are no good in scenario isn’t entirely true.

        With the ability to reduce Los to 5″ for a turn, to give stealth to objectives etc makes them more competitive than some.

        Out of tier Raiders, Nightmare, Malice are pushed to the upper end of good and beyond. They aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, to get the most out of them you need to get the spell assassination well out of your system when playing them.

        Looking beyond the obvious curse of shadows to allow movement through enemy models, veil of mists for a similar effect. With Crit Stygian abyss to stop movement of key models, not being for the assassination only.

        And to come full circle, if it all goes wrong you can always go for the assassination. Because your opponent will know its an option.

        Not that I’m a die hard Coven player or anything…

        James

  2. Ah, understood. When put into that context, maxxing the Denny list makes sense if you don’t intend to seriously use the Coven.

    I don’t think they’re intrinsically bad, but your right. The Coven is one of those casters with extremely bad matchups (Feora and anything with Ravagores, I’m looking in your direction). All of their tricks could give them some attrition game since they’re a 9 FOC ball of “delivery and denial”, but since they can’t really do anything on their own, you don’t have room for a lot of support tools. Nodes, siren, skarlock, and then everything else has to be a threat, because you know the Coven aren’t going to be.

  3. With all the colossal AOE’s I have wondered myself about coven viability. It is disappointing really, as I have always really liked their unique flavor.

  4. I’ve painted up eSkarre instead.

    Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast
    – Deathripper
    – Deathripper
    – Erebus
    Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
    – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
    Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
    Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 5 Grunts)
    – Satyxis Blood Hag
    Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 5 Grunts)
    – Satyxis Raider Sea Witch
    Pistol Wraith
    Pistol Wraith
    Satyxis Raider Captain
    Saxon Orrik
    Skarlock Thrall
    Warwitch Siren

    Specialists: Machine Wraith (2), Ogrun Bokur, Orin Midwinter, Warwitch Siren, and Scrap Thralls.

    Specialists for the eDeneghra list: Bile Thralls (min), Machine Wraith (2), Ogrun Bokur.

  5. Lamoron I agree completely that the witch coven is not viable in post colossal world..with that said I think the eskarre list could use a few tweaks. I’d prefer to see nigjtwretch over rippers for the synergy with black spot. Malice over erebus for same reason. Is swap the thralls for knights to reduce focus drain and not need Saxon orrik . Food for thought.

    • This was mostly made because I don’t actually have ten painted Knights, and all major tournaments in Denmark require fully painted armies.

      I’m going to be looking at eSkarre a bit over the next few weeks, after I’m done processing the overwhelming experience with eDeneghra, and what it will mean for future list compositions.

  6. NIFCON is over. I played eDeneghra in all five games, won four on scenario, and one on assassination. Our team took first place despite one member not winning a single game, as me and the Khador player were undefeated (despite me throwing the Khador player some really unpleasant matches to give the poor Cygnar player a break).

    I’ve played eDeneghra ten times now. The first five games were three losses and two wins, and then I decided to throw Internet wisdom out the window and do my own thing because being aggressive clearly wasn’t working.

    Five games later I have a nice golden trophy in the closet, so I’ll be analyzing the list composition once I get it all sorted out in my head, and the next three days I’m on a work-related convention and probably won’t have much time to write.

    In short: eDeneghra is the most amazingly awesome back line camper caster, when you design the list so it’s almost impossible to remove the key elements until turn three or later.

  7. I agree completely Kempton. Aggressive edenny play is a recipe for disaster she plays way better on the defense.
    How many times have you used edennys feat to disengage your army. It excels at denial of pieces.
    Edenny REALLY likes a bokur just fyi. I replace gerlak with him.
    Reducing her focus drain I feel is super critical. Nothing like wrong eye to be basically save a focus a turn. Plus submerge in an edenny list is a hard screw.

    • This tournament had Specialists, so I had the Bokur ready and pulled him in when I felt he was needed, which was just once, but in that game he was crucial. I think I agree with you, and he will probably be a core model.

  8. I saw that about the specialists and bokur. When I “main deck” the bokur I’ve never regretted it. Even if he doesn’t not eat a critical shot, he does block line of sight to EDenny and provides a super accurate slam that doesn’t require focus.
    Plus I feel her worst matchup is cygnar magic gunlines. Those times he is just gold.
    I really feel that Denny needs a significant range threat haven’t found the correct one yet but I’m working on it.
    Her feat is so ball busting on the defense it should be illegal.
    Have you tried her with a kraken? It’s like playing eskarre that can target a colossal. Safe delivery every time.

    • The missus was supposed to buy me a Kraken for Christmas, but unforeseen expenses came along, and we decided on a more limited budget for Christmas presents, so I don’t actually own one.

      Seeing as every game since then has been practice for the February tournaments, I haven’t had the time to try it out, so I’ve never actually had the Kraken on the table. It HAS been the only Colossal I’ve died to though, and I’ve been killed twice by it :D

  9. Krakens totally worth the cash outlay. I don’t know anywhere in the faction I can get reliable high strength shots that are boostable.

    Recently I’ve come back to the two dynamic campers in the faction. Pgaspy and EDenny.
    Pgaspy is her great counter list when your unsure of the match. So under rated.
    At this point I’m not even sure how many models I’ve killed with his feat. It’s like Christmas when your opponent has kayzazy or nyss hunters. And those are traditionally cryx’s bane
    Well this is going long feel free to email me.

    • I’m stuck at the worlds most boring convention, and it’s a good discussion anyway, so feel free to keep entertaining me :D

      pAsphyxious is on the list, after I get through with eDeneghra and eSkarre, whom I’ve put of for way to long.

  10. EDenny Really needs a credible shooting threat. I am not sure what that could be. Thoughts?
    EDenny also likes biles. No really think about it.

    • Alcohol alert! I’ve been playing 8-ball and drinking for several hours, so everything I say might be a bit silly, but again you’re right.

      I did use Bile Thralls (twice) since I brought them as specialists, and it’s pretty darn unfair on opponents. ‘YES you’re stuck, YES you’re engaged, and yeah those Bile Thralls are going to blow you up next round… here’s my shoulder if you feel like crying’.

      I’m thinking Nyss Hunters + Dougal would do well. With mini-feat they get a round of shooting from 14″ away, which is a free round against melee armies. Then they get another free round of shooting with Feat (and Ghost Walk if he ran to engage), and finally you can charge in and clean up whatever heavies are still problematic.

      Buuuut Nyss Hunters are boring! Double Pistol Wraiths were to expensive since the feat adds no damage. Double Bloat Thralls was no where near as interesting as I initially thought. Double Leviathans is something I’ve been considering, but I’m more inclined to simply go with Satyxis Raiders instead of shooting, and have a backup list to handle things like Saeryn or other lock down feats.

  11. Yeah biles with EDenny is entirely not fair. Exactly the scenario you described plays out almost every game.
    Yes nyss are boring but they are great which is sad.
    Know who else is good at application of bull crap? Croe and bros.
    Nothing like walk through their unit for backstabs but really still subpar.
    Nightwretch or defilers are the arc node of choice I think. Although the synergy of her feat and ripjaw is awfully fun.

    I think I’d run something similar to
    Defiler 5
    Defiler 5
    Bile thralls 5
    Full mc thralls 5
    Satyxis blood witches + UA 8
    Wrong eye and Snapjaw 9
    Warwitch siren 2
    Warwitch siren 2

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