Warwitch Deneghra: 2

I’ve had a couple of games with the list now, and I think I’m ready to pass a verdict. I’ve won the games but it’s been way to close for comfort most of the time, and the list just doesn’t have the synergy I expected.

Warwitch Deneghra
– Deathripper
– Deathripper
Croe’s Cutthroats (Croe and 5 Grunts)
Sea Dog Crew (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Mr. Walls Sea Dog Crew Quartermaster
Soulhunters (Leader and 4 Grunts)
The Withershadow Combine
Darragh Wrathe
Lord Rockbottom
Pistol Wraith
Pistol Wraith
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren

The individual blocks of the list work more or less as expected, though the Pirates need their support solos in order to really shine, but the combined effect isn’t really what I was looking for. The Sea Dogs work more like a tarpit because I can’t have Dougal MacNaile, and twelve points is a lot for a tarpit. I have yet to get a charge in with them, since they get blown to bits before they ever get there.

The Soul Hunters consistently do better than expected defensively, and a lot worse offensively, and they could really have used another point of MAT. They come from out of nowhere, and with Ghost Walk and Incorporeal there’s nothing that can stop them, but even with +2 to hit on the charge attack they miss a lot, unless I use my feat or pop Crippling Grasp on their targets, and there’s usually a lot of other things I would like to put Crippling Grasp on.

The Deathrippers have been doing great so far, and one even killed a Minuteman in todays game (though he needed help from one Pirate because he missed his first 6+ attack), and they’ve done great running around and biting Stormwall pods and the occasional stray infantryman.

Croe’s Cutthroats really earn their keep as well, and they’ve killed more than their share of solo characters in the games. The problem is hitting, but if they hit they usually kill what they’re shooting at, and Croe has been a melee monster almost every game. The last game was against a Kraye list, and even though they were facing a wall of jacks they still killed most of an entire ranger squad.

I’ve set about changing the list, but it’s a real stinker not having access to Dougal MacNaile. It’s sort of interesting how integral to Cryx/Merc shooting lists that guy is, and his kill potential is incredible, so he would be worth including even without someone to buff.

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29 Responses »

  1. yeah, I guess the character restriction for the team tournament is wreaking havoc with this list. But nice to see you back in action… ^^

    • The problem is, that it’s easy to make a killer list, but damn hard to make a killer list that is interesting as well. I finally got my hands on SR 2013 so now it’s time to see how that affects list building as a whole.

      I can already see that Terminus got a LOT stronger, even if they did nerf his ability to win scenarios by camping the opponents objective (casters cannot contest). Dominating objectives on the opponents side of the board is almost instantly a win, and Terminus can do that without dying on that crucial round.

      Sadly I’m all played out with Terminus, and Venethrax was no fun (even soloing Stormwalls didn’t quite make it interesting), so I don’t think I have an easy solution. I do wonder if the Coven can Dominate two places at once, as that would be pretty interesting.

      • That would be fun but I imagine it will work the same way it does with the Colossals contesting zones on the scenario with two vertical stripes of 6×14″. You have to chose which one the Colossal contests even though it’s in both zones.

        As always your lists are in for a lot of fun. I’m sad you weren’t able to do anything fun out of Venethrax. I now run him with Soulhunters when I introduce the game to newbies for the 2nd or 3rd time. I find it allows for some nice rules explanations and is quite fun to play when you don’t look for the win.

        Why don’t you go back to Scaverous? From what I read you had some fun with him even though you didn’t have enough time to weigh options during tournament games. Could be nice to see if that has changed…

        I’m not saying that because I want to start playing him, I swear!

  2. I played pirates for a while and Sea dogs really need the whole suite of pirate solos to be effective (well, you can skip Grogspar and Hawk) as jam/alpha strike unit. When you run them in a Talion Charter force in multiple units, it is economical. In another faction’s list, they are going to suffer from either being watered down or exhorbitant.

    Have you considered a min. Steelhead Riflemen for a ranged block option? CRA and Combined arms self-helps their accuracy and punch, saving points you’d usually use on a buffing solo. They lack the melee option that Sea Dogs have of course, but you seem to be aiming for a ranged heavy list with this anyway.

    • I’ve thought about it, but the unit really needs the ability to do both. It needs to shoot in case it’s problematic to move like with Harbingers/Old Witch/Saeryn on feat turn, and it needs melee ability in case of fast armies that can engage or in scenarios where staying back will cost me the game.

  3. I’m assuming Nyss and boomhowler’s are tied up in someone else’s list? I thought about trying a super shooty, but still some threat in melee, list:

    pDenny
    – Deathripper
    – Kraken
    – Skarlock
    Max Croe’s
    Max Nyss
    Dougal McNaile
    2x Pistol Wraith
    Warwitch Siren

    This leaves me Gorman, Madalyn, and all of my Cryx characers for a second list.

    First, any opinions on this list? Second, what caster would you use for second list? I’ve considered netdecking your favorite terminus one to try for a while, as I’ve never used the big guy.

    • I would probably reconsider the Kraken. It leaves you with just one Arc Node, and in that setup you could bring a lot of nice things with those points.

      Also, I’m now always considering Rockbottom when I bring massed mercenary infantry. They’re not fearless and it really sucks to miss those morale checks, and usually costs you the game.

      Rockbottom also has a spray that lights things on fire, so it’s not like he’s completely useless on his own. Personally I’ve always wanted to play this list, but I put it on the table at home at couldn’t figure out how to manage that silly number of models during timed events and without getting in the way of each other.

      Warwitch Deneghra
      – Deathripper
      – Deathripper
      Croe’s Cutthroats (Croe and 9 Grunts)
      Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
      Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts)
      Steelhead Riflemen (Leader and 5 Grunts)
      Steelhead Riflemen (Leader and 5 Grunts)
      Lord Rockbottom
      Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile
      Skarlock Thrall
      Warwitch Siren

      Assuming you can get that ‘broadside’ side round going, this list should annihilate anything that isn’t mostly stealth/incorporeal. It potentially has 40 shots and 3-6 sprays in a round, which is a LOT, and it can still beat some face in melee.

      In your case I would probably ditch the Kraken, bring in WE&SJ, maybe Satyxis Raiders, and probably Rockbottom for safety reasons. pDeneghras preferred backup has always been Terminus, and he remains the perfect answer to the matches she doesn’t like.

  4. This is off topic, but I propose renaming Deneghra to Fairwitch Deneghra. You know, because she is fair and all.

  5. Also, how did you get a copy of SR 2013 already?

    • Well it’s a beta version like all the Press Gangers get. They’re not supposed to share them, but… it’s 2013 and the world didn’t end. I usually get a copy a lot earlier actually, but my usual pimp has fallen of the face of the earth :D

  6. What about swapping the Pirates for undead Pirats + Capt. Rengrave?
    I really like them with pDenny.
    Thanks to Gang, Crippling Grasp or Parasite, The Withering and Rengrave they could hit like a truck (with 2 attacks!) and have a range-attack as well.

    With Feat and/or Crippling Grasp the are also quite survivable.
    Max Revenants + Capt. Rengrave or min Revenants + 3 Rifleman + Capt. Rengrave work absolutely fine for me.

    • I’ve been considering it. They don’t hit as hard as the living Pirates, but get around it by being harder to get rid of. They don’t have tough either, so while they come back they don’t do as well when blocking lanes.

      I might do a pDeneghra all Pirates list at some point. Sea Dogs, Revenants, Blackbanes, and all the solo characters… just for the hell of it :D

  7. Sea Dogs dont have tough (without rockbottom)

  8. I had a game today against Saeryn, using the Satyxis Raider version of the list. It was way better than the Pirates but it still suffered a bad lack of synergy.

    The Satyxis Raiders were the first wave, Croe’s Cutthroats were skirmishers, and the Soul Hunters were second wave, but they just can’t seal the deal with certainty.

    Usually I’ll have initiators (like Satyxis), Skirmishers (like Nyss), and closers (like Banes). This allows me to clear out linchpins, remove screens, and then send in the cleanup crew to wreck whatever is left, but Soul Hunters just can’t do that.

    I ended up having to force him to feat, then counter-feating and taking down his key pieces, and sending in the Soul Hunters to tank the round. Despite being locked down and debuffed he still managed to kill 4/5 Soul Hunters, and I had to assassinate with a pop’n’drop to avoid losing.

    I don’t like having to depend on a few dice rolls to win, even if they all require below average dice to work. I’ve considered Wrong Eye & Snapjaw, but looking at the list I’d suffer a catastrophic lack of numbers if I go that way.

    >>good stuff< < Croe's Cutthroats did well again. An Angelius charging my Deathripper turned it's back on them, and I still had my feat left. The first Cutthroat to shoot it in the back dealt 15 damage, much to the dismay of the poor owner. Soul Hunters with Ghost walk are just hilarious. 'Yes yes you have magical weapons, but I don’t suffer free strikes, and yes that means your entire infantry core will vanish now ‘.

    Now, to ponder the inherent issues with having a first wave unit type (Soul Hunters) that doesn’t work unless they’re second wave. I might try just sending them in first to see what happens.

  9. Sometimes you make me regret selling all my cryx stuff… esp. after 3 out of 4 Gargantuans turned out to be nicely sculpted paper weights… incl. the ones from the 2 hordes faction I play nowadays. ^^

    btw: have you got the PM I’ve send you through the PP forum?

    • Yeah I did. I’ve been crazy busy these last few days, but it’s on the list :D

      • No problem, been (and still be) busy too… reading dumb stuff for the U, redoing ~100 bases for my 2 hordes army and trying to get enough Breton knights painted for a upcoming SAGA campaign (funny game by the way).

        I hope I at least manage to get a game tomorrow with pKrueger (can’t play Kromac or Legion… LoE are all off their bases and Ghetorix got stripped down for a rebuild…what a clever move *doh*)

        • Funny, I’ve been redoing bases for Cryx models, though I quickly gave up on rebasing everything! You’re either brave or insane :D

          • I guess I should say: “both!”

            I switched from foam trays to magnetized bases lately. that allows me to simply drop a 42pt list in a empty cookie can and skip my big Feldherr backpack for a smaller bag, which makes commuting with the tram a bit more comfortable.

            Ripping the model not only allowed me to base both my circle, legion and the minion model they share in the same style, it also made it possible to pour some casting compound all around the magnets and thus make it harder for them to get pulled of the bases.

            So while removing all the excess with sand paper is a royal pain in the ass, it most likely will pay out in the long run. ^^

            Now I only need to throw a working 42pt pKrueger force together for tomorrow… which goes pretty smoothly until I move beyond warbeasts and start thinking about my infantry choices…. Weaver as cheaper filler, trackers for some shooting and bazillion attacks with lightning tendrils, or give wolf riders a try again, who don’t bowl over if something has the tools to work around stealth and are not that bad compared to gators since that ruling on how prey interacts with tendrils… P+S12 leaps on your prey target a sweet and they are fast enough to hunt stuff like solos and arc nodes, something that trackers don’t do that well.

          • Bloodtrackers, and then focus everything else in the list on killing heavies. I never did well with pKrueger but that idea is what came close to working for me.

  10. I’m now considering an entirely new direction. Instead of using the Soul Hunters as a second wave I’m going to try a brute force approach to pDeneghra, using the Soul Hunters as a first wave sacrificial unit.

    Warwitch Deneghra
    – Deathripper
    – Deathripper
    Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
    – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
    Croe’s Cutthroats (Croe and 9 Grunts)
    Soulhunters (Leader and 4 Grunts)
    The Withershadow Combine
    Bane Lord Tartarus
    Darragh Wrathe
    Skarlock Thrall
    Warwitch Siren

    No tricks, just brute force. I’m going to give this a try come Monday.

  11. im guessing this thread was started based on the idea of having pdenny run with 80% mercenaries. I seen this list online;

    pdenny
    defiler
    nightwretch
    skarlock
    min mech thralls
    necro surgeon and stitch
    necro surgeon and stitch
    press gangers max
    sea dog crew
    – mr walls
    – 3 sea dog rifleman
    bosun grogspar
    doc killingsworth
    firstmate hawk
    gorman
    lord rockbottom
    dougal macnaille
    2 x ogrun bokur

    Now aside from maybe gorman and dougal i dont see alot of the normal characters people use getting soaked up, my issue with something like that is, is the order of activations and placement would be a nightmare. But they all have a synergy to each other which somewhat seems necessary. Its definitely a gimmicky kinda list, but i think we can do better just staing in faction for the most part.

    • Actually it was started because I’m participating in a three man tournament in February, where each player must bring two lists and there’s a team wide character restriction in play.

      I’ve always liked ranged/mercenary pDeneghra, so I’ve been trying to make a working list without having access to Gorman/Madelyn/Dougal and it’s been impossible.

      Now I’ve defaulted to raw power instead, which is a lot more boring but should be more workable and less vulnerable to bad match-ups.

      I’m still going to fold as a house of cards if I meet Cygnar players in the tournament, because I’m probably bringing eDeneghra as my other list, but limiting the number of foolish decisions seems key :D

  12. Faced eHexeris tonight and barely pulled a win. The list works but Soul Hunters go SQUISH as a first wave. The list is fully painted but it seems we’re using specialists in the second February tournament, so that’s something I have to paint as well.

    Now to play around with eDeneghra!!!

  13. I know pdenny is awesome cause shes the queen of debuffing but I think you should consider gaspy the hellbringer, where instead of debuffing them he can just buff you, i know thats a bit more selfish in a team scenario, but you will also get alot more use out of his feat in the same respect, and you can also get away with a lot less characters.

    • Well, debuffs are just inherently superior to buffs, but in such a limited format buffs might pull a bit ahead due to limited options being available. I just don’t see myself fielding Asphyxious3 anytime soon.

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