I’m dreaming of an undead christmas!

I  need a little break from all the Hordes hogwash. I originally set out on this project to become a better player and to get away from Cryx for a while, and I do feel I’ve grown a lot as a player, though certainly not in the areas I was expecting to.

I’ve also gotten my behind kicked more in the last six months than I’ve ever had in any game system my entire life, and more than a few people have enjoyed paying me back in full, so there’s more than one upside to the whole thing.

Now I’ve actually enjoyed my games with Legion despite losing a third of them, something that most certainly cannot be said about my games with Circle Orboros.

Running beast heavy for six months has given me a much firmer ‘feel’ for the capacity of beast heavy lists, and (more importantly) how to dismantle them, but I keep looking at Cryx and seeing something I simply cannot see in any other faction (except maybe Khador in some setups).

  • Raw power: Yesterday a guy on the Legion forum claimed that ‘buffs > debuffs‘ and I almost shat myself. While it’s true that buffs do not require rolls to hit and often have the same effect, especially when you’re hitting an individual target or using unit, a debuff is for e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e. Buff spells are usually model/unit restricted, which means that people tend to take full units with all the bells and whistles (and specific ones at that), restricting their flexibility greatly and giving Cryx debuffs some juicy targets in the process.
  • Water Theory: Hordes lists simply cannot adhere to Water Theory because of how the Fury system works. Water Theory requires generalist model/units and most Hordes options are specialized to the extreme. I find Hordes lists to be very much all or nothing, and I really don’t like it much. It’s workable with Legion due to the sheer power level of their options making it succeed more often than not, but I don’t like being dependent on stats like that.
  • The puzzle: This is a bit less concrete. It ties in with the whole debuff issue, but as a debuff faction Cryx has so many options that can be made to work with each other. In a talk with a friend a couple of days ago I realized that almost every Cryx support model/unit can multi-task, and several of them are just as good on offense as they are at support. This combines well with the debuff theme, and you can decide what part a Cryx solo will play on a round to round basis. This ability to redefine your list and plan every round is a huge asset that Hordes have trouble emulating, and they mostly just pick a plan and muscle it through.

Then we add the fact that February will have several major tournaments that require fully painted lists, and that I don’t have a chance in hell of painting that many models in time, and it’s beginning to look a lot like Cryxmas!

Warwitch Deneghra
– Deathripper
– Deathripper
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Black Ogrun Boarding Party (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Croe’s Cutthroats (Croe and 9 Grunts)
The Withershadow Combine
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan
Saxon Orrik
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
Wrong Eye
– Snapjaw

I’m moving a bit away from my classic pDeneghra list, but Black Ogrun Boarding Party didn’t really have a place in the old setup. I faced a player at the ETC who used Bile Thralls with pDeneghra, and though he messed it up the core concept is really impressive.

Croe’s Cutthroats should probably be Nyss Hunters, but it ties in well with the rest of the list and AD will give me a bit more room to deploy. Bushwhack will also give me less dead models when it’s time for the Bile Thralls to enter play.

I’m clearly missing Dougal MacNail and Pistol Wraiths but the options I have of getting them in there removes key elements of the list (or the BOBP/Bile Thralls). I’m considering switching Dougal in for a Warwitch Siren but I’ll see how it plays out first.

I also need to find a second caster even though Terminus has been my man for a long time… because he’s been my man for a long time. It could be Mortenebra, but there’s a lot of painting missing there as well.


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21 Responses »

  1. I’ll go ahead and suggest pGaspy as your second. :)

    • Could be. I only ever got a handful of games in with him in the beginning, and he’s a powerful assassination caster. I must admit that I’m more inclined to pick one of the casters I haven’t played at all, but pAsphyxious is an option.

      I’ve played 0-1 games with Legendary Asphyxious, Epic Deneghra, Epic Goreshade, Epic Skarre, and Venethrax. Venethrax could be fun, simply to play something a bit like Terminus but still vastly different. The main problem is that I would need to rework the pDeneghra list due to character restrictions to make him viable.

  2. So how would a viable Venethrax list look?

    • Seeing as I’ve never actually had him on the table it would be purely theory machine.

      I would take a very fast element that could harvest souls early (on turn one in some cases), which would be Satyxis Raiders (almost guaranteed a couple of souls on the second round if any are available).

      Then I’d include a couple of ranged elements to ensure a nightmare of clouds being available on feat turn, which would all be support models with ranged attacks like WSC and Darragh Wrathe. Saxon Orrik is a given because of the lack of Pathfinder in the list.

      Malice would be included, having synergy with both WSC and Venethrax. If it’s a Warjack it turns into a Seether and if it’s a Warbeast it goes into the belly. The feat here would increase the odds of Malice surviving the round after pulling (again in theory).

      Lich Lord Venethrax
      – Malice
      Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
      – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
      Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
      Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts)
      – Satyxis Raider Sea Witch
      The Withershadow Combine
      Bane Lord Tartarus
      Darragh Wrathe
      Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan
      Satyxis Raider Captain
      Saxon Orrik
      Skarlock Thrall

      It’s a lot like my Terminus list now that I think about it, except I’ve traded the Lesser Warlock for a fast element. The list shouldn’t really tank as much as deny for a round, but with a few Souls Venethrax is almost as tough as Terminus (higher arm but more vulnerable to some things), but a lot more vulnerable to Eiryss.

      I sort of feel like trying this, but both Madelyn and the WSC are key models in my pDeneghra list, though maybe that could be remedied if Venethrax turns out to be fun. There’s been some builds using Arc Nodes and I find them interesting, but I also think they make the army more reliant on souls and that’s a bad thing (but we’ll see).

  3. Well that list features elements that im not fond of so i wont give it a try. Basicly i dont care for pirates, ghosts or otherwise.
    That limits my options and handicaps my Cryx lists as im well aware.

    I would like to play Venny a bit more and I keep my fingers crossed for a eVenny in the same book as the banecav.
    But maybe Ill put my Malice together finally and give it a spin with Venny atleast.
    Anyway thanks for the quick reply.

    • The only Pirates there are Satyxis Raiders, and I never actually think of them as pirates, but to each his own.

      Doesn’t look much like a Pirate.

      You could probably substitute the Raiders for Soul Hunters with pretty much the same effect. That’s something I intend to try out once I get around to putting them together, but in that case you would have to add some victims for his feat.

      In the list above I would feat on the round the Satyxis charge in, and then watch him take Crit KD free strikes or create a gazillion clouds in his own lines. A feat that makes a skirmish unit work two rounds in a row despite them dying seems like fun.

  4. Why do you have Saxon in a list with Ghostwalk? You could easily swap him for Dougal

    Also I like Croe’s more due to the act that when you go for his caster, Def really won’t matter

    • Because I have at least two units and another 7+ models without Pathfinder/Ghostly, and if I have to spend all my Focus casting Ghost Walks I’m not casting Parasites and Crippling Grasp :/

      Then there’s the problem with Skarlock Survivability, and the fact that Skarlocks can’t really keep up with the units they grant Ghost Walk because they don’t ignore terrain themselves.

      Finally there’s the whole ‘my two point solo’ kills your Dire Troll idea, and one day I will get Saxon Orrik charging a heavy warbeast with every debuff up and running, and watch my opponent cry when Saxon does 15+ damage and removes it from play :D

  5. I’ve only had a few games with Venethrax, but found that Malice and / or a Reaper work really nicely. For infantry Banes obviously work, and another with two attacks each is also really nice for harvesting those souls. Satyxis as you’ve said, but also Bloodgorgers.

    If you’re looking for a second list eSkarre is masses of fun. I personally don’t tend to run her with multiple heavies (usually a node, DJ and either Nightmare or Malice) but she alone is why all Cryx players need to ask for a Kraken for Christmas. ;)

  6. Im so glad that you found your way back to the beloved cryx again.
    Keep up the good job.

  7. I think you should give eSkarre a go, get some use out of our awesome character jacks. e Gaspy could also be good, wants similar character models as termi

    • I ran eAsphyxious for a while as my first real caster, but his style just didn’t fit me (at the time anyway). I won 9/11 games, with one being lost on the third tie-breaker where I would have tabled him if there hadn’t been dice down, but being good isn’t the same as being interesting.

      eSkarre is a fantastic caster, but I don’t have the models painted for her type of list, and she’s never really ‘done it’ for me. Some day maybe, but not for this tournament.

  8. I really think you should give gaspy the hellbringer a go, He does have a terminus like flare, but has a more toolbox like spell list. he can give speed to his battlegroup can help everyone hit, even if key solos like tartarus die. CAn help crack armour with scything touch. And he can certainly get the job done on his own if need be.

    • I keep going back to him and making lists, so it’s a possibility. I always run into problems with activation sequences due to the lack of Skarlock.

      I quite like the idea of Soul Hunters with him, and Satyxis Raiders of course, and if he could have Ashen Veil up, switch to Scything, and have the Skarlock switch it back, then he would be epic.

      What do you consider worth taking with him?

  9. @35

    EEgaspy and vociferon
    Full bane thralls + UA

    I was also using darrage wrathe for damage midigation and movement shenanigans, but after having a game where my two seethers spend the whole game disrupted, im gonna be trying it without darrage and taking two warwitch sirens.

    @ 50 Toss darrage back in take full bane knights and a machine wraith

    Personally Im just waiting for the bane cavalry to come out and then its getting a permaneny spot with him.

  10. as far as the skarlock problem your having thats what blood boon is for, if he kills a model during his activation he can cast a spell of 3 or less for free so just hot swap the ashen viel on the last model you killed.

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