Vayl, Disciple of Everblight: 3

Having had nine games with pVayl now I’m beginning to formulate a theory on her. I think Vayl might be a three wave caster, and running her as such could be interesting.

I’ve gone six to three with her so far, losing one game to assassination, one on scenario, and one being timed out, but every game so far I’ve felt like I was doing something wrong.

Wave lists

A one wave list is something like a Bethayne list designed purely to abuse her feat. It shuffles around a bit, then delivers a huge punch that hopefully inflicts enough damage to win the game. If it doesn’t it will usually be run over because it went all in. If you begin including skirmish units or models designed to work after the initial assault it becomes a two wave list.

A two wave list is something like pVayl, eDeneghra, Saeryn, eHaley, or anyone planning for a double impact. This means moving up, hitting hard, preventing retaliation, and then finishing the job. If you add a skirmish unit to this it becomes a three wave list, and if you add retaliation breakers it becomes a good three wave list.

I’ve decided that I want to try a couple of Warmonger War Chiefs as wave breakers. The first round they run, and the second round they charge if they can, but most likely they’re not fast enough. That’s usually the round where my heavies Yo-Yo and a couple of Warmongers getting in the way on the feat round will be a great set of breakers.

In some cases it might even be possible to pop Spiny Growth on the War Chiefs, and parking a DEF 12 / ARM 19 monster with Reach and Terror in the middle of his army could cause some serious activation sequence issues (and failing that crucial morale check has cost many a player the game).

Vayl, Disciple of Everblight
– Nephilim Protector
– Carnivean
– Scythean
– Scythean
Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd
Blighted Nyss Shepherd
Spell Martyr
Spell Martyr
Strider Deathstalker
Strider Deathstalker
Succubus
Warmonger War Chief
Warmonger War Chief
Totem Hunter

The Nephilim Protector is now called Dr. Whiff following his combat performance this Monday, but the core principle held true. I was able to run Vayl safely with a lot fewer transfers, and that really changed how she played. The Totem Hunter yet again tries to make the cut as assistant to the first wave hitter and backup wave breaker.

The last game against Jonesy this Monday clearly showed, that I badly need something to handle hidden support models with defensive tech (in this case pAlexia). The Totem Hunter with Prey and Chiller might only have two attacks but they’re pretty damn accurate and he hits like a truck against his Prey target. Another option I’ll be pursuing if this doesn’t work out, is Annyssa Ryvaal with the same assignment.

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16 Responses »

  1. Curious how the Mongers will turn out…I sold my chief along with his crew one month after playing legion and invested the money in the Gator posse… no pathfinder in a faction full of beasts that don’t care about terrain was the final nail in the coffin.

    But I do think that Anyssa gives you more… and if the mongers won’t work, raptors do quite well with pVayl.

    • Annyssa is up next if this doesn’t work out as intended. The Totem Hunter + Spell Martyr was Annyssa for a while, but I’ll be damned if I don’t field the TH at least once with Legion.

      I had him on the table once with Circle, and Rorsh (run by Hjelmen) throws a deviating stick of Dynomite at him and rolls triple sixes for damage :(

  2. I’m also unsure about the Protector. I’ve renamed him Dr. Whiffles (has a better ring to it) and having a Shield Guard allows me to run 1-2 Fury lower than I would normally do.

    The thing is, that with three heavies I’m not sure I can Spiny Growth him. In the former setup I had just two heavies, but adding a Scythean means trouble in resource land for Dr. Whiffles.

    He’s a great transfer target though and every time I assign damage to my heavies I wished I had someone to handle it.

  3. I’m also really considering Proteus again. I had initially discounted him because of the lacking damage and risky moves, buuuuut…he does present some interesting tactical options. The thing that makes me doubt him is the lack of reach on his claws, which gives him the same problem the Carnivean faces, and more than once have my Carnivean/Ravagore been unable to actually reach enough models to fulfill the killing potential.

    • But with Reach and Pull on his tentacles, the need for Reach on the claws is very much reduced, especially with Incite, where your need to boost is less.

      • Indeed it has very little effect on heavies (Tibbers excluded) with access to Chiller & Incite, but it does give him some trouble against Colossals and infantry, and failing that first attack means losing your initials unless something else happens to be nearby.

        Leash allows him to circumvent some of the problems with Colossals, but Scytheans simply have more range and more power against them for less points, while being able to end the turn further away with C&M.

        Normal infantry will sometimes cause him to lose an initial attack, because getting two light infantry models within 0.5″ can be problematic. It’s not a big problem as it is for the Carnivean, but sometimes one kill makes all the difference.

        Heavy infantry with buffs will also be a problem, as even with Incite a combined arm/health score of 24 means that the Tentacles aren’t killing on average rolls.

        Facing a combined score of 22 Proteus begins failing reach kills that would be almost guaranteed with the Scythean, even when operating without Incite (which gives me some wiggle room in the activation sequence).

        It’s not enough to invalidate him, but he is two points more for less hitting power, so his tricks need to make up for it. That’s why I’m considering instead of ordering :D

        • Then take Scytheans?

          I would just try it out and throw all those fancy numbers in the crapper, but then again, I think that that is the exact difference between you and me ;)

          • The thing is, that the abilities it brings might actually justify those numbers.

            It can peel melee models away from Vayl (or another heavy) a lot more reliably than Typhon. This could allow me to play more aggressively with Vayl which seems like a good idea.

            It can make Rampager shenanigans a lot easier, and in some cases Proteus could be the key to wiping out a heavy completely without any repercussions.

            Heightened Metabolism also makes the Scythean a bit more durable, and it tends do draw a lot of fire and arrive half-dead.

            If I were adamant against it I wouldn’t be considering it. It’s just that I’m not sure if shenanigans or brute force is the way to go with Vayl.

  4. So very conflicted. I want to play shenanigans, but brute force has it’s own appeal. It could be something like this.

    Vayl, Disciple of Everblight
    – Nephilim Protector
    – Carnivean
    – Scythean
    – Scythean
    Blighted Ogrun Warmongers (Leader and 4 Grunts)
    Spawning Vessel (Leader and 5 Grunts)
    Blighted Nyss Shepherd
    Blighted Nyss Shepherd
    Strider Deathstalker
    Strider Deathstalker
    Succubus
    Warmonger War Chief

    Brute force all the way! The very image of a Warmonger making it to melee with Chiller and Chief bonus makes me giddy.

    • Try it… then try a version that swaps the chief+mongers for either hunters+anyssa or drop one stalker to get to full raptors+anyssa…see what ticks more with you.

      Like I said: I sold my ogruns long ago and I never went back… I do like hunters with pVayl, because it gives you a tool to stop special actions and with chiller they can remove a lot of infantry on the charge and/or spread out to mark a bunch of targets for beast charges…

      Haven’t played raptors with her yet, but they are good with pretty much everything in legion and they can hurt beasts (esp. if you used rampager to flip them around), work as stop-gap weaponmaster delivery system and their low body-count meshes well with pVayls feat.

  5. Had a game with Duskern tonight. He was playing eSkarre with Satyxis, Kraken, Deathjack and some other stuff. I was playing the brute force list and it was spectacular.

    I had a Strider Deathstalker nuke the Sea Witch, denying them power swell, and then presented a line of Warmongers. Dr. Whiffles was destroyed by the Deathjack but inflicted about ten damage to it with SG, and held back his offense for a round.

    The Scytheans kicked major butt, and when I got the chance to send in the Warmongers against the Satyxis with full bells and whistles I did it. MAT 11 Warmongers completely destroyed a full unit of Satyxis, but it also cost me the game.

    In a ‘lolwhutomgmat11ftw’ moment I put Chiller on them, leaving me on one Fury, and I completely forgot that the Kraken can shoot out of melee. Duskernes dice were on fire all day (I was his second game and 10+ on 2d6 was the norm) and Vayl went belly up on me.

    At the time I had lost 1 Warmonger, 1 Protector, 1 Strider Deathstalker, and my Spawning Vessel Acolytes (though they were on the field as a Shredder), and there were zero good reasons to put Chiller on the Warmongers.

    Fives to hit might not have taken out the entire unit but it would have left maybe one or two of them alive which would have been no threat at all. If I had remembered to put Tenacity on Vayl I would also have won, but I activated the Shredder first and ran it out of Succubus range (sigh).

    If I had moved Vayl an inch further back with C&M I would also have been okay, because the Shredder was blocking the Krakens forward movement and killing it would have given me two more transfers (he actually tried but the dice saved him again, this time by refusing to kill the Shredder).

    Lesson learned. Don’t have ‘lolwhut’ moments, remember transfers, and remember activation sequences. Still, for the first time with pVayl I felt comfortable, and the Warmongers are definitely getting some more table time this Monday. Spectacular game Duskern, and rematch wanted in the near future!

    • I also finally think I have my pVayl list down, so now I think it’s time for eVayl to make an appearance, so I can have two lists at any coming tournaments.

      I could make the Tier list flying Circus, and I do have the models, but we all now that works, so I’ll try something else until I get tired of losing or make something else work!

      I hear I’m supposed to lose the first handful of games because she’s a difficult caster to manage, but if she’s even half as fun to play as it seems, then who cares about losing.

  6. I’m going to try my pVayl list with eVayl I think. The Protector will turn into BFS to supply some debuffs and because eVayl shouldn’t really need the Protector, but having two almost equal lists would make painting a lot easier.

    • you could do that…

      *drink his coffee to get the brain working*

      Since eVayl stays way more in the backfield and has access to occultation, I don’t think you need the protector… or you could put that spell on the BFS and allow it to run…tier is nice but nothing necessarily mandatory.

      But I would maybe think about swapping one sycthean for a angel… refuge on a speed 7 reach model with overtake and repulse is just too good to pass on.

  7. It was a very fun game, and just looking at my dice rolls was hilarious :D They are not usually that good, actually never xD A recurring joke when playing Simon is that I have offended the dice gods to such an extent, that they will NEVER forgive me, often forcing me to boost important rolls hitting on 3+ simply because I’ve seen them fail too often xD

    It was one of those victories that you pull out of your ass from hvaing nothing really working for you. Overall I could feel that I need some more games with the good lady, and Cryx in general since I have been focusing 100 % on gators for the past months, but it does feel good to be back among the ranks of the undead (and the horned girls ^^) :) I made a lot of mistakes and I think I could have done better overall if I was more up to speed, but who needs that if you can just luck out on the dice and hit with all the things necessary to kill your opponents caster xD Forgetting to use Admonition on the DJ was a major one, along with loosing the Sea Witch in your first turn :)

    I actually really like the list, and I think it has some great potential. Kraken is a monster with Black Spot and Seas of Fate :) A rematch sounds like a great idea :)

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