Spotlight: Terminus

Edit: Because Warcasters lost the ability to contest in steamroller scenarios, the Freight train lost his main win-condition. This means that Terminus moved from the very top to the middle of the power curve, and while most of what’s in this article still holds true, you’ll occasionally find yourself unable to seal the deal with only Terminus remaining.

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I’ve been meaning to update this for a while, and I think I’ve reached a point where I won’t learn much more about Terminus. Terminus has been my main Warcaster for more than a year, and for months I’ve played him exclusively, so I’d like to introduce you to him properly.

Obviously Terminus is a master tactician…

Terminus is an unholy abomination the size of a Helljack, with the ability to ignore just about anything on the table and split a caster in two with a single blow. Terminus can rip apart Colossals, survive a buffed up Mulg to the face, and take down an entire enemy army on his own. Terminus can reach levels of armor that nothing in the game can break, and with enough souls he has the damage output needed to make Butcher cry with envy. Terminus has an answer to almost anything in the game because he just won’t die, and he can kill almost anything without help.

Lich Lord Freight Train

At this time I’ve had 91 games with Terminus, I’ve won 86 of them, lost one because I got seriously ill, lost one because I decided to have fun at the ETC, and lost three games fair and square. These games have been a mix of casual games against opponents ranging from average to highly skilled, tournament games where Terminus has been my main casters (and often my only list), and tournaments against the best players in Denmark.

I’m telling you this to illustrate exactly how powerful a caster I consider Terminus to be, and with the right list I consider him one of the best tournament casters in the game, and on top it of he’s incredibly easy to play. I strongly urge you to stay away from Battlecollege when it comes to Terminus, because the article there sends a lot of people down a path of frustration, failure, and timed out Death-clocks.

Abilities: Offensive

Terminus has very few active abilities but a plethora of passive abilities which is what makes him so powerful and easy to play. A player once asked on the Privateer Press forums how to win with Terminus and the answer he got was: Run at caster, win! This is not true but like most jokes it has a core of truth that makes it a good joke, because when you play Terminus he does exactly nothing except advance on most turns, and then he charges and ends the game.

  • Feat: Dragon’s Call

This feat is what defines Terminus. Cull Soul allows Terminus to gather soul tokens when a living enemy model dies within 2″ of him, and the following round those souls turn into Focus. Dragon’s Call extends that soul collecting ability to 12″ and for every soul he has he gains +1 armor.

This means that Terminus with five souls and Dragon’s Call will be armor 29 which is nearly impossible to crack, and my personal best is armor 40 which only Butcher with every available buff and feat can hope to crack, and he has to roll really really well to do it (eStryker rolling absurdly well can also crack him, thanks dmeep) . Souls you gather before activating Dragon’s Call also turn into armor, so you can kill things within 2″ of him and then feat later without getting in trouble.

My personal rule is armor 28 on feat turn. this means I’ll feat if I can get him to armor 28, which includes considering things like spending Focus on buying attacks or casting spells. There will be games where the feat will be useless, and there will be games where the feat will completely destroy an opponents chances of winning, but luckily Terminus does fine without a single additional soul. Finally the feat lasts for a round and not just a turn, so any models that die due to corrosion or free strikes still go in the belly if they’re within range.

  • Melee: Doomsayer (main weapon)

Terminus wields Doomsayer which is a Magical Reach weapon with P+S 16. This is his main weapon and while P+S 16 and MAT 7 might not seem impressive for a melee caster he brings more to the party.

  • Melee: Scything Claw (secondary weapon)

This is his second initial attack at P+S 14 and it has Critical Pitch. There are exceptionally few situations where critical pitch is worth using but in case the model you’re currently beating on is standing in front of an obstruction it’s worth considering, and occasionally an opportunity could arise where it’s useful. In more than 90 games I’ve never used Critical Pitch.

  • Melee: Malediction (spell)

This is where Terminus becomes a true abomination. Malediction is an upkeep spell which is usually cast on his first turn and upkept the entire game. This spell inflicts a -2 penalty to armor and defense upon enemy models within 2″ of him which gives him the following stats: MAT 9, P+S 18 Doomsayer, and P+S 16 Scything Claw. This means he’ll hit most high defense casters on average dice, and will be able to reliably munch through even defense 14-15 models with a little help, and he does get a little help from his army.

Malediction can also be used to debuff enemy heavies if needed, but since that means moving Terminus next to the things that can actually kill him it’s worth considering the move very carefully. I use Terminus like this every third game or so, and it’s a game winning move that not many opponents take into consideration, because what type of idiot would move his caster up next to a thing that could kill him. This trick has some great synergy with the Ravager trick.

  • Melee: Ravager (spell)

Terminus has another trick up his pompous sleeves and this is the reason you should always bring a Skarlock. Ravager grants a member of the battlegroup Berserk, and since Terminus is a member of his own Battlegroup you can have that MAT 9, P+S 18 Doomsayer kill everything within 2″ of Terminus.

There’s a trick with Ravager if there’s an enemy heavy you would like to smack a couple of times without spending your precious Focus and it goes like this. Skarlock casts Ravager on Terminus, Withershadow Combine casts Puppet Master on Terminus, and Terminus charges the heavy while making sure to end his charge within ½” of an enemy infantry model. Terminus then hits the enemy heavy with Doomsayer doing heavy damage.

Terminus then uses his Scything Claw to kill the infantry model next to him, and Ravager grants him another attack. Nothing in the rules for Berserk says that Berserk attacks must be done with the weapon that activated it, so Terminus gets another attack with Doomsayer on the heavy. If your opponent placed several easily killed models within reach you can kill them before taking your last attack on the heavy, and Puppet Master makes sure you don’t fail to poor dice.

  • Ranged: Dragon Fire (spray)

Terminus has a rarely used option but it’s quite powerful if you remember you have it. In most rounds Terminus will either run or charge, but occasionally there are situations you don’t want to be stuck in the middle of and remembering that you have a 10″ spray with POW 14 available is nice in those situations.

I’ll go ahead here and state that this attack should never be boosted unless it’s on his feat turn, and even then I wouldn’t do it. Dragon Fire is a little extra something on turn you have nothing better to do, unless you’re going for a ranged assassination.

  • Ranged: Hellfire (spell)

Terminus can indeed do spell assassinations but it’s rare. It usually happens when you’re up against someone who knows the threat ranges and has a good eye for distances. What usually happens is that Terminus has a great round and is loaded with souls, so your opponent retreats out of charge range. This leaves you with 15-20 Focus and a caster that’s 2-3″ out of range.

Hellfire has a cost of 3 Focus but you’ll need to boost to hit because of his low FOCUS of 6, so they cost at least 4 Focus and boosting damage is often a good idea since they’re so expensive. This combines well with Dragon Fire because it has the same range as Hellfire. If you managed to gain 11 souls on feat round then you have 17 Focus, which means one fully boosted spray, and three fully boosted Hellfire spells (also POW 14) which will kill most squishy casters.

Depending on how the rest of the game is going you can often fire the spray and one Hellfire, and evaluate your odds at killing the caster because you can stop at 10 Focus remaining and still be close to immortal depending on what your opponent has left.

  • Ranged: Annihilation (spell)

This is a trap spell. It’s exceedingly expensive and lures you into taking Arc nodes instead of something useful. The players who use this calls it “priming the Terminus pump” but unless you’ve got an Arc Node it’s usually better to spray, and if you have an Arc node you’re doing something wrong. I’ve used it a couple of times  when I’ve had Terminus overloaded on souls after he’s destroyed something in melee but in general you should cross this spell out on his card.

  • Movement: Flight

I’m listing this under offensive abilities because this is what elevates Terminus into godhood. On a normal turn Butcher will outdo Terminus on raw damage, but a good player will have little trouble shielding his caster from a surprise visit from Butcher. Flight allows Terminus to ignore models when determining LoS for a charge, and it allows Terminus to move through models as well.

This means that unless he’s blocked by clouds or terrain he can charge an enemy if it comes within range. You will be taking free strikes during the flight but with armor 24+ he’ll ignore most of them (watch out for models that can stop you like Janissa, or models with knockdown free strikes).

I call this the Terminus test, because advancing into his charge range usually means that the game ends, and depending on what remains in your list the Terminus test can be failed at 15″ (Madelyn Corbeau & Darragh Wrathe being alive and active), and not many players see that coming.

Abilities: Defensive

While his offensive abilities might seem impressive it’s his defensive abilities that make it possible to win. Terminus is on a large base, with fourteen defense and 18 base armor, which wouldn’t be enough to keep him alive except that he can turtle his way to victory because of his passive abilities.

  • Passive: Undead (type)

Being undead makes a lot of things easier. There are a lot of abilities that won’t work on you and the downside to being undead is very rarely felt. This also means that Shadow of Death works on himself which is fantastic.

  • Passive: Shadow of Death (aura)

All friendly undead models within 10″ of Terminus gain tough… yes all of them, and since Terminus is within 10″ of himself he also gains tough which is hilarious on one of the best campers in the game. This is a huge ability that defines Terminus and it allows you to make one of the most resilient bricks in the game (on par with Trollbloods).

Shadow of Death also allows you a shot at keeping the important models alive since almost every important model is undead, and when you pick up the dice and make a tough check for Tartarus your opponent will cry foul and beat you. This is one of the most frustrating abilities an opponent has to deal with, and it’s won me a lot of games.

  • Passive: Abomination (aura)

If you get within 3″ of Terminus you must take a morale test, and that goes for friendly models as well. This is a great defense and I have it written on the back of my Terminus because it’s turned more than a few games around. it’s also nice to be reminded to keep the few living non-fearless models you have the hell away from him, but occasionally I still fail a check with Madelyn Corbeau.

  • Active: Sacrificial Pawn (aura)

If someone shoots Terminus and hits him directly you can choose to have a small based non-incorporeal undead model within 3″ take the hit instead. This has been extremely entertaining during my time with Terminus as people go through incredibly complex plays to free up Eiryss, take free strikes, kill their own models, and when they roll against Terminus and triumphantly announce a hit I ask them if they forgot about Sacrificial pawn, and then store the image of their despair for a rainy day.

This also means that Terminus is almost immune to ranged attacks because he’s armor 24 with the ability to move hits he doesn’t feel like taking. I usually take everything up to POW 13-14 on Terminus, because at armor 24 they’re not going to harm him significantly (if at all), and when my opponent throws something heavy at him (POW 15+) he gets to hit something like a Bane Thrall instead, and to add insult to injury that target is tough.

After a while opponents will stop shooting at you unless they can completely clean out your shield, and the only faction with any hope of actually accomplishing that task is Cygnar, and maybe one or two corner case lists elsewhere. You really want them to shoot you actually, because every shot that goes to Terminus is a shot wasted.

List construction: Auto-includes

This is the part where it gets really interesting because list construction with Terminus is both rewarding and boring. Terminus is a caster that comes into his own at 35 points but gets really powerful at 50 points, and to be honest I don’t have a lot of experience running him in anything but 50 points so all the theory presented in this article is based on 50 point games.

This is the first unit I reach for in a Terminus list and it’s not just because adding more banes makes every list more powerful. Bane Thralls out-threat most heavies in the game and can engage and annihilate all but Colossals and closed Devastators without help, which is exactly what we need since Terminus isn’t big on helping them out most games. Bane Thralls also come with natural tough from their UA which means they can move out of Shadow of Death range and that’s very valuable in many games.

Bane Thralls also come with the ability to shake knockdown and stationary which is huge in some games, and just really good in others. This means that pSorcha won’t just walk up and stop your entire army from moving ahead because everyone is stuck behind a wall of frozen Bane Thralls, and the knockdown feat casters can’t move up their heavies in safety because the horde of stealth killers get up for free and will exact a bloody vengeance.

Bane Thralls also make the best sacrificial pawn models in the game because they’re so hard to shift. If you stuff the 3″ around Terminus with Mechanithralls you’ll be creating a zone where enemy AoE attacks can harvest 4-6 of them at the time, and an enemy that goes all in can clear the area and allow Eiryss a shot at Terminus that you really don’t want to give him. I already explained why most people won’t shoot Terminus unless they can remove his shield and with a shield of Bane Thralls it’s stupidly hard to remove it. Bane Thralls don’t care much about AoE damage that will kill Mechanithralls on average dice, they very rarely take direct hits unless you’re up against Cygnar, and that’s on top of being the perfect melee unit for Terminus.

Finally these guys provide Terminus with an Armor debuff and I often keep Tartarus back so I can run him in to debuff an enemy caster when I go for him. Tartarus can engage from 14″ away and is Ghostly so he’s not hard to get on a target if you run him in, and suddenly Terminus is hitting P+S 20 with Doomsayer and P+S 18 with his Scything Claw. This will demolish anyone but Karchev or a heavy Fury camper on average dice.

These are in every Terminus list. It’s not even really a debate because those five points buys you so much power that not bringing them should be considered grounds for excommunication. Bile Thralls ensures that you won’t be overrun by cheap high defense models and forced to use your Bane Thralls to clear them out just to be brought down by heavies the following round.

Bile Thralls have their own article because they’re such an incredible unit, and with Terminus they’re gods on the battlefield. I usually hide one behind Terminus because he’s a great backup and due to the size of even the basic Terminus model opponents tend to miss him being there and that has won me a few games. I don’t covertly move him there, I don’t do subterfuge and sleight of hand, I simply move him there and people tend to forget because he’s out of sight.

These guys are my third and final auto-include unit. Admonia ensures that you won’t automatically lose to a caster with a movement debuff like Crippling Grasp, or an out-of turn movement effect like Pursuit. Unbinding also handles things like Winter Guard Death Stars, Colossals with Arcane Shield, and a multitude of other upkeep spells that will make your life miserable. In addition she upkeeps Malediction for free so Terminus can camp at armor 24 instead of 23 which makes a world of difference. You should do your best not to lose Admonia in every game, and in most games she’s the second most important model on the table.

Tremulus has access to Puppet Master which is the ability that allows Terminus to assassinate almost any caster in the game with a degree of certainty. When you charge in after running Tartarus to debuff a target you don’t want that 3d6+20 damage charge attack missing and Puppet Master is the answer. Puppet Master also allows you to lessen the impact of bad dice in general, and if you bring Erebus and get that perfect round set up then Puppet Master is essential there as well.

Finally there’s Dark Industries and the fact that WSC hit like trucks against Warjacks. In 90 games I’ve had Dark Industries go off just once or twice because honestly the WSC are to important to allow them near the positions they need to do these things. I tried using Malice a couple of times but it wasn’t worth it. With most other casters I play the WSC very offensively and have several caster kills with them, but with Terminus they’re my babies and staying “alive” is their main concern.

This solo character is actually not an auto-include in smaller games but at 50 points he becomes another god on the battlefield. This is because his Beyond Death ability makes Terminus almost immune to death by Warbeast as he becomes armor 26 and that’s something an opponent needs a tooled up, buffed up, special character heavy to break. There are things in the game that can break Terminus at armor 26, like Mulg or Ghetorix with Primal, but they are few and far between, and when you’re facing them you know what model you need to keep an eye on.

Darragh Wrathe also does wonders for the speed of a list in general, and his ability to Death Ride adds an inch to Terminus’ assassination run and 12″ is a solid threat range. Darragh Wrathe rarely enters the fray without his “stress relief assistant” Madelyn Corbeau.

This little dame is two points worth of complete and utter havoc. There’s no other two point model in the game that brings so much power and so many options to a table, and this one model alone has won me more games that I can keep track of. Madelyn can move Bile Thralls to purge entire armies, move Admonia up to unbind that important upkeep, add distance to Darragh Wrathes Beyond Death aura, and literally a hundred other things in any given round.

Madelyn also extends Terminus’ assassination run to 15″ if placed correctly and that’s borderline crazy. A caster that ignores intervening models and shrugs off all but the most powerful free strikes, that can hit and kill most casters on average dice, and can come from 15″ away to do it is crazy. Any opponent that has encountered Madelyn Corbeau with a Terminus list before will be doing everything in his power to kill her so make sure she’s in cover or near Darragh Wrathe so she can pawn to him.

  • Skarlock

The Skarlock is a core piece in my Terminus list because of his ability to cast Ravager. I tried about twenty games without him and they were significantly harder because of my suddenly limited amount of options each round. Without the Skarlock it’s hard to get Terminus doing anything except camp but with the Skarlock and his free Ravager you can do all kinds of interesting plays. I’ve had people questioning this choice but I stand by it as a core model, and given the choice between Darragh Wrathe and the Skarlock I would be hard pressed to choose, because that’s how powerful an option the Skarlock is.

The Skarlock allows you to launch an Overtake Ravager Erebus without spending half your Focus. The Skarlock allows you to engage and destroy infantry that either does not grant souls or where using your feat would be counter productive. The Skarlock can cast Hellfire albeit at magic ability 6. The Skarlock serves as a backup Sacrificial Pawn model. The Skarlock is a great addition and going without him should be a conscious choice not a knee jerk reaction to the perceived lack of viability.

  • Saxon Orrik

The fourth and final Auto-include solo in my list is Saxon Orrik. Mr. Orrik is vital in order to avoid losing to bad terrain, a player who knows how to use terrain, or casters that can make terrain like pIrusk or pBaldur. Saxon Orrik also brings a gun and spends most his time behind the lines touching himself in his special place and going “I’m to important to be up there doing anything“.

In other lists Saxon Orrik is a great offensive piece, but like Admonia he’s just to valuable to lose on something stupid. There have been games where I’ve decided he would be worth more in an active role but they’re rare. Occasionally Saxon gets to shoot at flanking solo characters or work as a backup sweeper to free up something, but mostly he just touches himself.

The fact that I run multiple heavies was something that was initially scoffed at but the results speak for themselves. I stick to one Helljack and use a Lesser Warlock but the one Helljack is nearly always Erebus. I’ve experimented with other Helljacks and Leviathans are solid if you build and play around them, while Malice should in theory be great but always falls apart in actual games. Nightmare could be solid but he’s expensive and fragile, while Deathjack is much to expensive and causes all kinds of problems with soul gathering.

Erebus is the perfect little Helljack for Terminus because he does the two things Terminus needs. Erebus is the best Helljack we have for getting in the way, and Erebus can collect a bunch of souls for Terminus if your your opponent allows it. The article I’ve linked explains how fantastic Erebus is at getting in the way, and collecting souls is done by using Ravager and Overtake to create a non-reach Helljack version of General Slaughterborn.

Erebus usually does nothing except die in spectacular ways and places, and that’s actually a great use for him, but every now and then an opponent will hand you the opportunity to Overtake your way to a handful of souls. This should in theory also allow you to use Erebus as an assassination piece, but I find that he rarely has enough operational systems when the time comes, and no arms means no caster kills. My personal best with Erebus is 16 kills in one round, but that was a complete fluke and came as so much of a surprise that I hadn’t even used my feat with Terminus.

List construction: Optional choices

The above models leave you with 11 points left in a 50 point list. In the final version of my list these points were spent on two Machine Wraiths and Wrong Eye. I did this because Terminus has problems with scenario play and two Machine Wraiths solved those problems nicely. I brought Wrong Eye because I wanted a heavy hitter I could send in without Terminus losing any survivability and it has been wondrous. There are however several other options that will do nicely in a Terminus list.

These have been used by me and others with similar lists to great effect, and a list with dual Pistol Wraiths, Warwitch Siren, Gorman, and a Machine Wraith took second best Cryx general at the ETC and was undefeated. I had 5-1 and lost the game because I wanted to enjoy myself, which again should give you an idea about the raw power of the core in this list.

List construction: Alternatives

There are other ways of doing this of course. I ran a list with two Leviathans that was almost as effective but a lot more boring since it didn’t have the points to play around with. Instead of Erebus and Wrong Eye it has two Leviathans, and the Machine Wraiths are switched to allow a Necrotech as well. There’s also the gimmick list run by Sanctjud from the Privateer Press forums which is 30 Bane Knights and the support team, which has some really bad match-ups but also gets by on raw power if you can manage it and can stomach painting 30 Bane Knights.

Then we have the players who still stand by the Mechanithrall build, but that build is outdated to say the least. The Mechanithrall build is vulnerable to everything from AoE spam to terrain issues, it will automatically lose to anyone with sufficient buffers like covering fire templates, and it’s a nightmare to run in timed tournaments. A few players have then settled on including a single unit of Mechanithralls to serve as a bullet shield but I think this is a mistake because it weakens the list as a whole.

Playing Terminus

The great thing about Terminus is that he can have a basic setup. This allows you to face an army where you don’t really understand what’s going on and you don’t know his abilities at heart, and still do well. I usually have the brick at my center and a heavy on each flank, but if I’m unsure about the opposition I’ll pull in Erebus to guard Terminus.

This is my basic deployment with a heavy on each flank. In this case I’ve deployed Darragh Wrathe and Madelyn on the flank instead of at the center because of the nice defensive wall on the right, where I can park them in cover and activate Intrigue if he decides to try for the zone. This will allow me to move up Bile Thralls and clear the zone, and this game I would have won on scenario except my opponent conceded.

The way to play Terminus is dead simple and that’s why I love him as a tournament caster. After three games it the noise and heat that is the hallmark of nerd gatherings I can’t add two straight numbers together but I don’t really need to because the list plays itself.

  • Round 1: First player

If you are the first player then the plan is so simple it hurts. Terminus assigns one Focus to Erebus, casts Malediction and charges a target directly across from him. The Bane Thralls run into position and since they can run 10″ they’ll be ½-1″ ahead of him. The rest of the list either runs or uses whatever abilities they need. Wrong Eye casts Submerge and charges ahead. Snapjaw Submerges and charges a living warrior model on the other side (has to be done in that order unless you deploy Snapjaw slightly behind Wrong Eye, or Wrong Eye won’t be able to Submerge before charging as Snapjaw will be out of his control area). Darragh Wrathe moves up and uses an ability, then uses his light cavalry move to get into position.

Don’t do this if you opponent has hard hitting advanced deploy models with exceptional charge ranges, but in 95% of your games this is a safe move. Your opponent will move up, and you will get to absorb his charge on full Focus and with all abilities active. I say absorb the charge because you will have to due to the slow speed of the list. This list actually likes going second if you can ensure that Terminus won’t drop dead from some out of the blue assassination, because scenarios are hard on it when it goes first.

  • Round 1: Second player

If you are the second player your main objectives is to get up and steal the initiative while keeping Terminus safe. This is hard to explain quickly so if you haven’t read the article on stealing the initiative you should probably do that. When you understand how it works then the first turn with this list should be obvious and if done right your opponent will have to absorb your charge and he’s completely toast. The only lists I’ve encountered that I can’t easily beast if I get the initiative is eAsphyxious and possibly a mirror Terminus (never tried that).

  • Round 2: The Terminus test.

Every round after the first you begin by checking if your opponent failed the Terminus test and got within charge range. If Madelyn Corbeau was activated you could move up Terminus if it seems likely that he would get within 12″ and then it’s clobbering time. Terminus will kill 95% of all Warcasters in the game unless they camp everything they’ve got, and 95% of all Warlocks unless they camp 3+ Fury. If he failed the Terminus test and there are no free strikes with knockdown, stationary, or similar abilities that will stop his charge (Janissa) between them then he most likely lost.

I usually spend the time to move the rest of the army, clear out lanes to avoid as many free strikes as possible, and then pop feat and charge. The reason I always pop feat when charging is because IF I fail I have the option of getting some souls on him and maybe even surviving. This has worked several times so remember it. If you can run in Tartarus before charging that a bonus and it will be an easier kill. So far only two casters have survived being charged by Terminus, and it was pSeverius on full camp with defensive upkeeps on himself, and Saeryn where I couldn’t roll 7+ once on five attempts.

  • Round 2: Feat time?

Assuming he hasn’t failed the Terminus test it’s time to add up available souls. If you feel you can easily achieve armor 28 and there’s no Molik Karn, Mulg, or Ghetorix on the other side then Terminus can play offense. This requires you to handle Eiryss/Thrullg if they’re present, but that’s something you always have to have in mind. On a good feat round you can easily reach armor 30-35, which allows you to run into the entire enemy army and laugh like a maniac, but be damn sure you CAN reach that high a number because you have to feat and run in before getting them.

Usually in these situations I use the Skarlock to cast Ravager on Terminus and he goes in to harvest 3-4 souls himself while putting some damage on a heavy (see the Ravager trick from the abilities section). Then I follow up with Bile Thralls and clear out everything around Terminus, because the worst that can happen to Terminus is getting corroded. This then clears the way for the Bane Thralls to go hit the enemy heavies and suddenly an opponent has 30% of his list left and an armor 30+ monster in the middle.

In the image above Terminus is all alone in front of an entire army, including a Spriggan and the Great Bears, pIrusk hasn’t used his feat so the Great Bears will be able to come in with MAT 10 doing 5d6+13 & 4d6+13 each. That would be a problem except that Terminus is at armor 36 there, and Darragh Wrathe has used Beyond Death down behind the rocks, so they Great Bears will do -8 & -11 damage on average.

  • Round 2+: No feat and no charge?

In case you can’t feat yourself to invulnerability and there’s no charging in to win then it’s time to shuffle for position. This list is designed to destroy anything it can charge, and to profit when an opponent charges your lines, so if you can’t end the game then shuffle to avoid losing on scenario and push him on the offensive. If another round goes by where he won’t come at you then begin looking for a scenario win because after two turns of backing away you should be able to push his last forces out of those zones.

This is at the ETC where I did exactly that. I pushed him and he retreated, I pushed him again and he retreated, then I had free hands to kill the few remaining things he had in the zones and win. Here Snapjaw cleared out a whole unit of Stormlancers and the only thing that could have stopped me from winning was the Stormwall but pushing it ahead would have allowed me to unbind and kill it easily: Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t, that’s what Terminus is about.

I’ve enjoyed my time with Terminus immensely and if you have any questions feel free to ask them and I’ll answer or work them into the article if I can. I’ve also gathered a few articles or sites that deals with Terminus.

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82 Responses »

  1. Is it pathetic that I get giddy like a school girl when I see you’ve posted a new spotlight article? Hahaha! Once again your going to force me to spend a whole bunch of money on new Cryx models. Great article as always.

  2. Another great article as always. I have been reading about everything you wrote, this website and old one, for the last month or so. I started Warmachine way back in the day when it first came out, played Menoth. I did not play it long before I got out of it. I have played 40k since 3rd ed but have really started into Warmachine in the last two months. I traded some 40k for Cygnar but soon bailed on them for Cryx. I have always wanted to play Cryx. Based upon models, I really wanted to play Terminus. Having played Khorne, Nids and Dark Eldar, I thought Cryx fit my play style best. And following your Terminus challenge has given me a great feel for him. I am currently 3-0 with him, following your tactics. I just wanted to get on here and say thanks for all your posts and I look forward to reading more.

  3. Awesome article. I’ve been wanting to play Terminus for a while but couldn’t find any up-to-date and comprehensive primers. I’m curious though, would you recommend Terminus in a character-restricted format such as 3-list SR where it might be more enticing to field models like BLT with a caster like eGaspy? If so, what would you use as a substitute/replacement?

    • Uh big question. In a two list format I would pair him with pDeneghra and they have very little overlap, and Mortenebra shouldn’t b a problem either. eSkarre and him could do well, so there are really quite a few options. Let me think on it a bit and see what I come up with.

    • After giving it some thought my answer will have to be: It depends. It depends on what other casters you bring and what models you have available. The key unit is the WSC and if you are able to make two other solid lists without them then you can run Terminus.

      You can build Terminus to work without every other support piece, but you cannot make him work without the Withershadow Combine. If you can’t bring Tartarus then the Bane Thralls will manage without him, and the points could be used for Pistol Wraiths or Warwitch Sirens to add to your capacity to deal with heavies.

      If you can’t bring Darragh Wrathe you’ll be weaker against hordes and have more problems with movement, but the list will pull through most things anyway.

      Madelyn is a great model but half the games she’s dead on round two anyway and the list can manage without her. If you can’t bring Saxon Orrik you should switch the Focus to double Bane Knights because flow will become an issue, but it’s doable.

      Wrong Eye and Erebus can be switched for Leviathans so you can run the Gunslinger list, so basically everything except for the Withershadow Combine is replaceable.

      If you can make two lists without the WSC then you can run Terminus in a three list setup. I would probably pair him with a ranged pDeneghra list which does fine without all those support pieces, and eSkarre, pSkarre, or Mortenebra as the final choice.

  4. This guide is an excellent update, and i’m really looking forward to running him once he’s got a full coat of paint going. Thanks man, keep up the great work!

  5. In a 3-list SR with character restrictions I’ve been running Big T as the tip of the spear, with a ranged-based pdenny list (very similar to the one Lamoron has used in the past) and PSkarre with the Kraken, bane knights with no sauce, and satyxis. It’s been working really well since I picked up the Kraken at Lock n Load. I suppose using Eskarre would also work :)

    • Yeah I thought pSkarre might be viable without the key solo characters, since she can run Satyxis as well as Knights. She also likes Blood Witches so she can have upkeep removal without it dragging her down.

  6. Oy! I have been following your blog(s) for a year now and have always enjoyed your spotlights and the likes (battlereports etc). I really like the list right now, since I noticed that you were playing snapjaw too :P (which apparently is popular with cryx) and Erebus. I’ve been playing something really close to your list except with PIRATES instead of Bane Thralls. I really like the revenants and I’ve been wondering if you disliked them somehow because you barely ever mentioned them. Wouldn’t be interesting for you to test them out? ;)

    • Well as my current Circle project is doing a great job of illustrating my main strength in this game is analyzing and putting together lists, while on the spot tactics and adaptation is more problematic.

      If I were a real military leader I would do strategy, supply lines, unit compositions, equipment, and shut the hell up when the field commanders began talking about the actual execution of tactics.

      This means that units with a major weakness that can only be mitigated by playing flawlessly is something I tend to avoid like the plague, and the Revenant Crew is just such a unit.

      The unit doesn’t hit very hard, has a single defense mechanism that requires you to anticipate every enemy option and block them, and if you fail to keep the leader safe they’re just really expensive and adds nothing.

      If you can anticipate every enemy option I think they could work, but they still hit like a sack of toilet paper and add very little to a Terminus list as a whole while making bad match-ups more likely.

      I did have some lists cooking with them in, but I kept running into the problem that if I were going for Pirates I’d rather bring the living mercenary ones instead, since they’re monsters with the right setup and can survive my lack of adaptation on the field.

      If you’re doing well with them I would love to hear more about how you run them, since a good use of underdog units is exactly what this site is about :)

  7. you mentioned pButcher as the only thing that could threaten Terminus but id give a heads up for eStryker aswell granted the power boost doesnt go of 3 dice high roll every game but when it does its quite painfull to get p+s 31 charge attacks. (thats what got me killed even while camping some but clearly not enough focus) since popping 3 dice power boost (surge?) can kill stryker not a lot of people go for it but since he had no way of winning he popped it and managed to roll high but not max and quickly proceeded to cleft me in twain and then brag about it on the internet ^^

    Also managed to get big T killed by a skorne garden gnome with last stand? anyway additional die on attack and dmg but dies at the end of round with the warlock that can boost attacks and dmg with the destroyed models of the army. the garden gnome composition made gathering souls very difficult as the only 4 on the army at 35 points was 2 cyclops savages his caster and the sabretooth tiger dragoon solo….

    i havent fielded Terminus a lot despite converting him up to look like an evil tooth fairy (it works with my general theme of the army, you dont want to know…) as i refuse to field unpainted and still lack or havent finished stuff to make him work properly but im getting there. i have found your articles in general very informative, this one beeing no exception. thank you for taking your time to share your empirical knowledge with the rest of us.

    • i havent fielded Terminus a lot despite converting him up to look like an evil tooth fairy (it works with my general theme of the army, you dont want to know…) ” You cannot dangle evil tooth fairies in front of me and not link some pictures!!!

      True, eStryker rolling nothing but sixes can also do it :D

  8. only have pics on my phone atm ill be sure to post a link as soon as they are transfered to a place that can be wiewed by the general public

    sorry for beeing such a tease ^^

  9. Props on the evil tooth fairy absolute gold lol

  10. I wanted your thoughts about the necro surgeoun and stitch thralls with terminus or what kind of interaction he would have with the kraken.

    my 35 point terminus list looks like this
    terminus
    erebus
    skarlock
    max bane thralls + UA
    tartarus
    bile thralls
    madelyn corbeau
    saxon orrik
    withershadow combine.

    I cant seem to find the room for darrage wraithe so he is the one that sits out till 50 points i find saxon is really needed for the bane thralls or bile thralls depending on the board layout and i know madelyn like to be able to pawn of an darrage but there just isnt the points to get it all in.

    now at 50 points the list remains the same, and i noramlly had malice in there but ive found him to not really perform much like you have so im going to pick up WE/SJ on monday. so with the extra 15 points we toss is WE/SJ Darrage wraith, which leaves two points. Now i see the merit in the WWS for powerboostering erebus, and id love to toss in gorman but he tends to find himself in my other list which is geared more for scenario (edenny). So i wanted to know your thoughts on filling the two points with the necro surgeoun and stitch thralls. Terminus sac pawns to the surgeon, who then sac pawns to the stitch thralls?

    • I don’t feel Terminus needs more defensive tech. In my list I’ve brought two Machine Wraiths because Terminus is full up on offensive tech as well, but he could use something to cause confusion and handle problematic solo characters.

  11. Speaking about things which can kill Terminus I’d like to share a funny story.

    Once I’ve lost Terminus to a Mage Hunter Assassin one-shot. The bastard rolled two fives and two sixes on his damage roll. To add insult to injury I even hadn’t a chance for a tough roll!

  12. I need some real help with my 35 point terminus list, i played against a freind last night who was running efeora and proxied the new judicator colossal and bonded it to feora, even with tough rolls by the time i got to engage his lines 80 % of my stuff was wiped off the board.

    I ran first turn, he moved up and lobbed some templates from the colossal lighting some models on fire, i ran up again and this is where shit hit the fan, between all the wondering templates and sprays all my infantry either died outright, or choked on fire during my maintenance phase. So all i had left at the time i got get into the action was terminus madelyn, 3 bane thralls (UA was dead) and admonia.

    Because of all the fire when he popped feat he was sitting at armour 26 i believe so i couldnt assassinate him. If i ran away for a turn i was screwed and if i engaged and killed stuff to gather souls, the judicator would just smack me around with 7 pow 22 fist.

    my list was
    Terminus
    erebus
    skarlock
    max bane thralls + UA
    tartarus
    min biles
    madelyn
    saxon
    withershadow

    I got absoluetly raped, which never happens. The fact the efeora gives his aoes continuous fire is just retarded to try and get around you just cant make enough tough roles and if you do your just knocked down and cant do anything.

    • Tough one at 35 points. First of all I think the brick needs to scatter in this match-up since bunching anything up together is bad business. Secondly if he has a Judicator in a 35 point list he is going to have trouble keeping his support safe but most Terminus lists are to slow to take advantage of that.

      It’s hard to comment without pictures and his list though, so could you post his list?

  13. So he has Efeora
    min unit of choir
    vassal (give it an extra attack like it needs more)
    Epic eiryss
    Full temple flameguard with UA
    full emplar bastions.

    • and the judicator sorry

      • after some thought i would see what you think about this for a 35 point list.

        terminus
        erebus
        skarlock
        wrong eye/snap jaw
        darrage wrathe
        saxon orrik
        max soulhunters
        withershadow combine.

        • Sorry, I’m in Rhodes and only have net when I’m in bars getting drunk. My initial thought is that more boots on the ground is the way to go, and speed won’t help much since the TFG will block you anyway and the soul hunters are not killing the Judicator even if they do get through.

          I think the best bet is to bring something to take care of the elf hooker and then spread out and push. Then again I did just drink… A lot… And this might be the worst advice ever :D

  14. theres a thread in the privateer press forums asking if terminus was dad with the introduction of collossals, im pretty sure you had responded in some way. And im starting to think thats somewhat true but only with the stormwall or judicator, unless its the conquest paired with esorcha. He normally just runs up collects a bunch of souls and doesnt usually have much to worry about, but boosted pow 22’s from a collossal, and those souls he would gather are screening said collossal its a real risky venture. The continuous fire aoes from efeora and judicator or the covering fire aoes from the stormwall make for some really ugly games, using the bane/bile thrall brick format for terminus.

  15. I don’t think It’s a problem at 50 points, but at 35 it probably is…

  16. I guess ill have to start running E3gaspy more then

  17. Two questions. Going into a 2 list tournament, taking Terminus and pDenny, (and taking bane thralls with both) which list would you put BLT in? As he seems to be the only one that I am really having overlap with. (Running a pretty similar list to your termy list and a ranged list with pDenny, Nyss, pistols, nightwretches, etc..) Also, when looking at opponents lists, how do you usually decide on using or not using Terminus? (Or, when would you use pDenny over Termy)

    • First question is easy, as I would skip Banes completely with Deneghra, and if I had to bring them Terminus would get Tartarus because Deneghra can compensate for both their speed and MAT.

      The second question is a bit harder. The first reason to choose Deneghra is an opponent with melee denial like Saeryn or eDeneghra. These opponents are not impossible but if you have a ranged Deneghra list you should definitely pick that instead.

      The second thing I look for is of course things that can crack Terminus open. If I see Molik Karn I have to consider if his army can deliver the can opener reliably, and if he can then a back field caster is probably a better choice.

      The third thing I look for is usually if there’s some thing that will make a win significantly harder with Terminus, like Asphyxious and his Hellbound or pHaley and Temporal barrier.

      If he can’t block melee, can’t crack armor, and can’t stop my charge then there’s no doubt Terminus takes the field. The only match I consider impossible with Terminus is eAsphyxious though, which I guess is sort of fitting, so don’t worry to much because Terminus will make it through most things if played right.

      • Just be thankful the judicator for menoth isnt out yet, cause then you would also take your stealthy pdenny list vs efeora and the judicator instead of terminus as well.

        • Not sure about that, as one drift to her could easily mean game over, while facing it with Terminus is a question of timing and placement because he thinks being on fire makes him look cool.

          • What would you run with pDenny instead of banes, raiders? Or would you stick to straight ranged with Nyss and Croe’s and such

  18. Raiders are great with her, and when combined with some ranged elements they really present a problem. If he doesn’t advance you’ll shoot him to death, and if he does you’ll melee him to death. The Raider Captain and Sea Witch also has guns, just in case they need to help a bit with the shooting ;)

    • Okay cool, thanks man.. I have been playing Circle Orboros for a while but am starting a Cryx army so at least for the beginning I need a lot of list building help while I get used to the units and such. Anyways, thanks for all the help, I have read all of your articles and a lot of them have helped with my circle games as well… Keep up the awesome work :)

  19. Sorry, just one more question xD The core list of things you have here comes in at 39 points… what would you drop out of the list to bring it down to 35? Like I said, I’m just starting Cryx, so I don’t think I want to jump right into 50 points, plus most of the tournaments in my area play at 35 points… Thanks again :3

  20. Before the release of Colossals the 35 point version looked like this.

    Lich Lord Terminus
    – Stalker
    Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
    – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
    Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
    The Withershadow Combine
    Bane Lord Tartarus
    Darragh Wrathe
    Madelyn Corbeau
    Saxon Orrik
    Skarlock Thrall

    It has more bad match-ups than the 50 point version but that’s impossible to avoid. I haven’t given it much thought since, and I think it will be hard surviving the anti-infantry Colossals at 35 points. At 50 points I’m not all that scared of the eFeoera/Judicator setup, but at 35 points it’s a nightmare (the same goes for Stormwalls).

  21. Just won my first tournament here in sweden with this list

    Lich Lord Terminus (*4pts)
    * Leviathan (9pts)
    Bane Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
    Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
    * Bane Thrall Officer & Standard (3pts)
    Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
    The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
    Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
    Darragh Wrathe (4pts)
    Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
    Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan (2pts)
    Warwitch Siren (2pts)

    I tried Gorman instead of a skarlock becouse the last few times the skarlock had done nothing at all.
    I meet legion, legion and retri with terminus and both of the legion players had Bethane.
    Got forsaken bombed once while being at 11 focus and it was due to a lucky shadowbind hitting terminus and then getting gallowed 6″ foward in to a forsaken but Terminus took it like a camp.

    The last 2 matches I played with pSkarre since she doesnt need any character in her list to be effective.

    • Looks solid. I would think you could get into trouble if you faced multiple buffers like Covering Fire or Caustic Mists, but the extra hitting speed, power and threat vectors from the Knights might be enough to circumvent the problem :)

      Blight Shroud with 11 Focus should leave you at 2-3 health, but it’s not recommendable. 12+ Focus should kill you unless you tough it out though :D

  22. They calculated that I would take 53.5 damage on average so I would be dead on average dice.
    13 dies + 8 straight in the face :p

    • I forgot to add the two basic dice :/

      That would make 9 Focus deal about 19.5″ on average (after deducting ARM). It’s a bad idea to get blight bombed, but at least we have Tough…

  23. Its bad indeed but when you cant really do anything about it due to shadowbind and then getting dragged by bethane then stuff like that happens :p

  24. What about, for the 50 point list, instead of Wrong eye and two machine wraiths, putting in a full unit of bane knights and one wraith. Of course it’s more bodies on the table to deal with, which isn’t the greatest for timed turns but they seem like they would work with terminus’s strengths more then wrong eye and snap jaw, and they can take down anything snap jaw can on a charge

    • The problem is that they don’t cover any of his problems like WE&SJ do, and they don’t have the defenses Bane Thralls do. DEF 12 & ARM 16 means dying to most basic shooting units on average dice, and if you manage a tough check he’ll be knocked down and useless for a round.

      They don’t circumvent problems with Covering Fire or damaging AoE effects like Caustic Mist either, and many games have been decided by the fact that I could run/charge in Tartarus, send in Terminus without spending Focus, and then send in Snapjaw with MAT 8 & PS 21 to kill the Stormwall/Cyclone/whatever.

      Finally they end up being the only viable target in the list, which means they’ll eat every low powered attack your opponent has, while WE&SJ add to the denial aspect of the list instead.

      I’ve run Terminus for well over a hundred games, and I found most games to be remarkably easier after adding the pair. They’re the final piece of the puzzle and they take care of most of his bad match-ups.

      I can give you a couple of examples of some of the more interesting things they did in the final couple of games (ETC 2012) I had before going traitor.

      * pDeneghra tried debuffing Snapjaw but he was Submerged, then he killed her with one bite since he could boost and had Malediction to help out.

      * Wrong Eye runs into position and Snapjaw charges a Stormstrider through two Covering Fire templates, and kills it because Wrong Eye is placed so Snapjaw cannot be pushed away.

      * Snapjaw charges through Covering Fire templates to kill 3/4 members of a Stormlancer unit, winning me the game on scenario.

      These are matches where Bane Knights would have been wiped of the table or would have been unable to reach their target, and Terminus doesn’t really need infantry spam to work :)

      • And do you find that Wrong Eye and Snapjaw are much better than Rorsh and Brine? I don’t own either of them at the moment and I want to get the best one, lol

        • Or are there any other lesser locks worth taking a look at? Some of the other ones look pretty cool, but looks don’t really mean much on the table, haha

          • Ignore that last comment, I just realised that Wrong eye and Rorsh are the only ones that work for Cryx >.> But between those two, which do you prefer?

        • Originally I was using R&B but their survivability is low and that didn’t match the design of the Terminus list. With pDeneghra I would usually go with R&B, but with Terminus WE&SJ just fit the whole denial aspect more.

  25. I played my freind tonight who playes elylyth and saeryn alot, and he quite good with both. He prefers playing at the 35pt level, and he generally plays beast and solo heavy.

    So i ran
    TErminus
    skarlock
    withershadow
    full bane thralls with Ua
    tartarus
    saxxon
    madelyn
    darrage
    machine wrathe

    the first game he ended up picking elylyth thinking id take edenny, but i took big T, i ran first and second turn spread the brick out and he ended up conceding ( i was shocked cause he never concedes and he normally wins 60% of our matches) the second game was big T vs saeryn, and again i ran first and second turn, he popped feat on second turn, i made 3 tough rolls in a row on the machine wraith and he again conceded.

    I wasnt happy not getting to kill anything or actually get to really play other than run and postion things, but it is nice to see Big T dominating the killbox scenarios.

  26. http://museonminis.com/epic-fm-episode-2/ … the section at 1.08 on Terminus is hilarious!

    The only thing Terminus creates is a lack of friendship!
    It’s his stupid stupid feat (…) it just becomes farcical

  27. I was in a 50pt game against my friend who was playing pSeverius. I was getting low on non-Terminus models and was in range for the spell kill with a solid amount of focus (I had feated last turn). I did mah fly thang, didn’t take any damage and (being out of range for melee), prepared for the spell assassination. And then I remembered he is immune to spells. Full health pSeverius with no focus….one SP 10 pow 14….BOOST IT. Got him to one health. I am very dead. But wait! The spray has corrosion! Hope? He rolls on his turn and SUCCESS!!!! He….was not pleased. Needless to say, the Dragonfather’s work here was done.

  28. I am curious if you have tried the kraken with terminus, I didn’t see any mention of gameplay that included the mighty cryxian colossal. I read this after making a 50 pt list already and it feels hard to switch out certain units to make your recommended list. I have included most of it with selective changes

    minimum bane thralls & UA
    full bane knights
    kraken
    skarlock
    darragh wrathe
    Madelyn corbeau
    tartarus
    and of course terminus himself

    are there any immediate weaknesses that yours covers which mine does not? do you believe kraken to be viable?

    • I never did try the Kraken with Terminus, but I do believe it’s viable. The added shooting, the long threat range, the durability, and the potential for destruction outweighs the three souls it potentially costs him.

      Lich Lord Terminus
      – Kraken
      Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
      – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
      Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts)
      The Withershadow Combine
      Bane Lord Tartarus
      Darragh Wrathe
      Madelyn Corbeau
      Saxon Orrik
      Skarlock Thrall

      This is what I would have run. The only real weakness I see in your list is a lack of Bile Thralls, which I consider an absolute necessity with Terminus in order to deal with high defense infantry.

      Kraken with Ravager should be game changing in some matchups, but in most games he’ll be foiled by tough, self sacrifice, high defense, or some other mechanism to prevent him harvesting the entire list in a round.

  29. out of curiosity, could you name the 3 factions+casters you lost to fair & square? because this terminus sounds like a pretty op guy to me -.-

    • Sure. The only trouncing I’ve really had was by Asphyxious2 (Cryx), as he is the perfect counter to everything Terminus does, and you won’t win that match-up unless the Asphyxious2 player really brain-farts.

      I’ve lost to Saeryn (Legion). I had seven attacks on her and needed to roll 7+ three times, but that failed so I lost. I’ve since then learned how to handle Saeryn by tanking her and not going all in, but she’s still a hard match-up.

      I’ve lost to pSeverius (Menoth) on scenario. In retrospect I lost that game because I got carried away and tried to assassinate him while he was camping and had Defender’s Ward up on himself. I left him with 2 boxes and lost on scenario, where I could easily have won just by running back into the zone and forcing another turn.

      Terminus has taken a hit in Colossals, but he’s still a nightmare on the field because of his stupid resilience and defensive mechanisms.

  30. So I have just last night finished my 6th Warmachine game ever, and all 6 were with your recommended Terminus list. (The exact list you took to the ETC)

    All six were won by me with an Assassination on turn three, though I was also always up on control points in each game, as I was trying for senario as well, but it’s just to tempting to fly in and beat face with Termy.

    Feels a little bit dirty to go 6-0 as a utter noob, when I was fully expecting to get man-handeled for the first few months in the game, like most people tell you to be prepared for. To be fair I have been a student of the game for over three years as I had a remote job in Alaska and was unable to play untill recently! But read everything I could and pushed my dolls around the table by myself every chance I got!

    So first off, I want to thank you for the work you have put in to this site and on the boards, it was really helpful and informative for a beginer.

    Now to my questions…Last night I played (2) 50 pt games, first against a Khador Zerkova list, the second versus a Searforge Madhammer list. While I won both games, they were very frustrating and very little fun as I watched my troops evaporate around me.

    Zerkova was chock full of sprays and magical attacks bringing the new Greylord Outriders (Full), 3 Graylrod Ternions, and a Kholdun Lord. Which sprayed my Machine Wraiths, Thralls, Corbeau, and most of the Biles off the table turn two under feat so I could not retaliate, not to mention Kayazys mini feated into my back ranks to tie up the support staff!

    Madhammer had an almost entire list of AOEs running 2 units Ogrun Asault Corp, 2 units min Hammerfall Gun Corp (AOEs under feat), 3 Gunbunnies, Herne and Jonne, and Madhammer himself. Top off turn two he feated and killed…..just about everything! Left me with Wrong Eye and Snap Jaw, Erebus, Saxon, 3 Banes, Malevolus, and Termy!

    I am not complaining, as I still won both games, but it was very disheartening to watch the army melt away with little I could do about it! Is this to be expected by these match-ups? Should I just take it all and smile as feating that close to Termy equals their utter demise the following turn?

    • Yep, you just watch and smile, knowing that there are just two models you need to keep safe (Admonia & Terminus), and that Terminus can win a lot of games without any other model left on the board.

      It does happen that something else wins the game for you (mostly Snapjaw), but that list is designed to get Terminus there in safety, and to punish anything that comes at it. Heavy shooting that wipes your list isn’t wiping Terminus, so it’s all good :D

  31. What are your thoughts on dropping the Machine Wraiths for Gorman? Might just be the match-ups I have had so far, but they seem to die to magic-weapons/sparys every game on turn 1 or 2 and dont accomplish anything.

    Also I have never got close to getting much work done with Wrong Eye and Snapjaw, which I am sure is my issue not theirs. In all my games they have eaten maybe 2-3 Infantry each game. I guess what I need to know is what is their objective in the list, what should they be targetting or trying to acomplish?

    Thanks for the quick reply by the way!

    • I can se Gorman working, but in this list the Machine Wraiths are more important. Like everything else their job is to solve a couple of specific problems, which are ‘losing on scenario’ and ‘Eiryss’.

      The MW are stupidly fast, and can use any kind of terrain to their advantage, which has saved me from more than one stupid loss. They also tend to run in and threaten free-strikes on solo characters when the only magical weapons around are ranged, but in many games they do just die. I’ve written a spotlight on them you might find interesting.

      Snapjaw is another tool for punishment. If an enemy heavy comes near, the list needs to kill it without draining Terminus. In most cases the Bane Thralls can do it, but there are many ways to block single wound infantry which simply does not work on heavies. He takes a lot of practice to use well, but he’s worth it.

  32. Imageshack seems to have ‘lost’ some of my images, so I have been forced to remove minor parts of the article that won’t make any sense without the images.

  33. Hi There

    This may sound like a dumb question, but if one does not ask the only dumb person is me.. This is probably more a game related question then a list, eventhough I was using my Terminus list.

    I used Warwitch Siren and parked her 2 inch away from an entire unit, does this force the entire unit to deal with her before making there mery way, or can some units take care of her while other units within that unit go wherever they want.

    I played a game where she had engaged a unit of 10 warriors and 1 move closer to deal with her while the other moved towards my main line. My Warwitch Siren was on the flank, not at all in the same direction as my main line.

    Was this a leagal move.

    thanks

  34. I’ve been having trouble with eKrueger every time I’ve played against him. The core of the lists are mostly something like this:

    eKrueger
    2x stalker (or stalker and ghetorix)
    gorax
    druids + UA
    2x stones + UA
    2x gallows groves

    This I feel is the core of the list. Then people add what else they like. Could be a unit of wold stalkers or megalith or whatever.

    Now I run two lists atm to try to focus more on the game aspects and less on the lists (like playing scenario, playing faster, etc). The idea here is to get to know the lists really good, so I don’t have to think too much about them, and focus on getting better at the game as a whole. The reason there’s two lists is to practice a kinda of tournament setting :D

    My lists are Terminus and eSkarre. To avoid this becoming confusing, I’ll just post the lists at the end ;)

    Last I played eKrueger was with Terminus and that game really gave me a lot of headaches. The scenario was Incursion. I went first as this was the smart choice imo giving the nature of eKruegers feat. My stuff really had a hard time getting there and I also had to try to avoid loosing on scenario by feeding him models. The problem here is that I could not really move up Wrathe too much, as he got shot of the horse and I was afraid of getting him killed. Terminus couldn’t really move up either as getting a primal’ed stalker to the face (he had two in that list) with his back turned would be bad. I won’t bore you with details, but Terminus got TK’ed out of beyond death and got the before mentioned primal’ed stalker in the back of his head :D Then he died…

    I’ve been thinking about this matchup a lot, but I can’t really figure it out. Did I chose the wrong list? Did I play it badly? Is the list bad?

    I know it isn’t a dream matchup for the eSkarre list either, but like I said above, I can’t really figure it out. The lists:

    Lich Lord Terminus – WJ: +4
    – Cankerworm – PC: 5

    Bane Lord Tartarus – PC: 4
    Darragh Wrathe – PC: 4
    Machine Wraith – PC: 1
    Pistol Wraith – PC: 3
    Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan – PC: 2
    Saxon Orrik – PC: 2

    Bane Thralls – Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
    – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard – Bane Thrall Officer & Standard 3
    Bile Thralls – Leader & 5 Grunts: 5
    Blackbane’s Ghost Raiders – Blackbane and 5 Ghost Raiders: 6
    Satyxis Blood Witches – Leader & 5 Grunts: 4
    – Satyxis Blood Hag – Satyxis Blood Hag 2
    The Withershadow Combine – Malevolus, Admonia, & Tremulus: 5

    Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast – WJ: +6
    – Deathjack – PC: 12
    – Kraken – PC: 19
    – Nightwretch – PC: 4

    Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist – PC: 2
    Pistol Wraith – PC: 3
    Pistol Wraith – PC: 3

    Satyxis Raiders – Leader & 5 Grunts: 5
    Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls – Necrosurgeon & 3 Grunts: 2
    Satyxis Blood Witches – Leader & 5 Grunts: 4
    – Satyxis Blood Hag – Satyxis Blood Hag 2

    I would like to hear what you think :)

    • Well, eKrueger is a bitch with Terminus, and especially with the slower builds (pray the Bane Cavalry can change that). In 2012 it wasn’t really a problem but in 2013 Terminus cannot contest which made it a big-ass problem.

      I’m sort of leaning towards Deneghra2 as a solution for many of the problems Terminus now faces with Colossals and SR 2013. To answer your question I don’t think you chose the wrong list, but that’s just because I think eSkarre would have been destroyed even worse.

      • You might be right. Nothing is perfect . A two list setup will always have bad matchups. Should I change one of my casters I would probably end up having another bad matchup. Do you think there’s no reason to take terminus anymore then? :-)

        • No he’s still viable, but I think he moved from top tier to middle tier, and from main list to skew list. In 2012 before Colossals he was an unstoppable monster winning games on his own, but not he has ten times the number of bad match-ups and cannot win alone any more.

          Terminus still has a lot of game because there are still a lot of lists that simply cannot handle him, but instead of being a main list he’s now the big stick you use to force someone to play a shit match-up against your other caster (which should probably be Deneghra2)

          • Sorry to hear that since I’m really starting to warm up to him ^^ Well I shouldn’t be scared off by stuff like that, but I would still like to hear what you think is so fantastic about the eDenny vs eKrueger matchup? This is getting more and more not related to Terminus… but I don’t know where else to post :)

          • eDeneghra counters eKruegers feat fairly well with her own, she also counters his threat range advantage, and she can remove stealth from the shifting stones allowing her ranged models to counter the Teleport shenanigans (also she tends to actually bring ranged models).

          • I’ve created a new page, and a post, in which to ask questions from now on. Its under compendiums and currently on the front page.

  35. Hi Lamoron

    Made a little modification to the list and ran 2 Warwitch Sirens in my list instead of orrik and corbeau, and they got more attention and took some focus off Terminus and kept Erebus away from Terminus Focus.

    This is how I ran it: in my 35pts game vs mercinaries.

    Terminus
    Erebus
    max bane thralls w/UA
    Tartarus
    Warwitch Sirens
    Warwitch Sirens
    Min Bile thrall
    Skarlack
    WTC

    On feat turn Terminus had 36 arm, and following feat turn I charged Damino and my oppenenet gave me the game.

    The WS covered my flanks with erebus following one of them, and the rest was a brick. Every turn Terminus had ravager, malidiction and puppet master, in all case this list once again was rolling on all cylinders.

    • Mercenaries are like an open buffet in most games with Terminus… om nom nom :D

      • Imagine I even got 2 purges off with my bile thralls. My oppenent was the league champion, and left shaking his head on how he could have beaten this list… The tough rolls were the game chager, as I was rolling well, next time lady luck may not be in my favor, and me thinks I shall see his colosal next time.

  36. Hi Lamoron,
    Just wondering if you’d use the new Bane Cavalry with Terminus? I want to play him tomorrow against a friend of mine who plays Retribution. He wants to try their new caster out. I don’t own Wrong Eye and Snap Jaw, but want to try the new Banes out :) Any suggestions? Thanks!

  37. What do you think about Terminus with a Aiakos Double Leviathan build in today’s meta?

    I have only run it twice, once against eVlad and once against Stryker2… but both times I came out on top, and didn’t have to try to hard to get Terminus to them, they had to come to me.

    Against Vlad the two fully loaded (One on Termy and one on Aiakos) Leviathans nearly shot the Behemoth off the table top of two. Termy popped feat to finish it off with free Ravager strikes when he flew in and killed IFP.

    Not saying he is as good as when you ran him… but I think he makes a good third list.

    I was running:

    -Leviathan
    Aiakos
    -Leviathan
    Darragh
    Madelyn
    Saxon
    BLT
    Full Bane Thralls w/UA
    Min Biles
    Withershadow Combine

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