Mohsar Vs. pButcher (50 points)

This time around I decided to test the Woldstalkers. I’ve been having some real trouble figuring out how Circle is supposed to work so I decided to try some more ranged options and see if having the ability to force him forward would be what I was looking for.

Mohsar the Desertwalker
– Gorax
– Ghetorix
– Warpwolf Stalker
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt)
Tharn Bloodweavers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Tharn Ravagers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
– Tharn Ravager Chieftain
Blackclad Wayfarer
Blackclad Wayfarer
Gallows Grove
Gallows Grove

Facing me was pButcher played by a guy that has Circle as his main faction but has given them up after ETC. He was fielding infantry spam and I knew there would be trouble.

The Butcher of Khardov
– Juggernaut
– Marauder
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Great Bears of Gallowswood
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts)
– Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard
Gorman di Wulfe
Kell Bailoch
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount)
Widowmaker Marksman
War dog

I could kiss my ranged superiority goodbye so I decided on a new plan and it was as good a time as any to learn how to hit and run, except I would run into more troops, but then I remembered pButchers feat and decided that it wouldn’t fly either. Time to try some real hit and run then, but I wasn’t entirely optimistic. The images are poor from this game as some of the lights were broken and my camera was misbehaving again.

I lost the roll and deployed second. I see a heavy melee presence on the left, and a heavy ranged presence on the right. I decided I would lure his ranged presence away by sacrificing a unit of Woldstalkers to keep them busy, and otherwise ignore them or send some Ravagers in there to clean up.

The wood was a fine place for my AD Ravagers and it fit a tree as well. I was planning on giving them Mirage on my first turn and shuffling them to the very front of the woods, while keeping a Wayfarer handy to increase their threat if that Juggernaut came within 15″ which I was pretty sure it would or he would lose on scenario.

He runs up. The Dragoon decides that Woldstalkers would love him as a target and relocates to the center. I think I can handle the left flank and I’m pretty sure I’ll lose on the right flank as I have no answer to the Deathstar in this list. I’ve been so used to laughing at them and killing them at will with Cryx that actually having to face them without the tools to do so is a scary prospect.

The building on my left flank makes for a great gap stopper so after the Gorax has spanked itself Mohsar activates and makes a long line of Pillars. Mohsar also puts up Mirage on the Ravagers and the Gobbers ensure that no surprise 20″ sniper shots can get to him since he’s on zero Fury. The left flank Woldstalkers advance to just outside charge range of the IFP should they manage to move the pillars but the tree is moved up to far.

The Woldstalkers on the right advance to just outside WG range but I’ve failed to take the Widowmakers into account being completely unaccustomed to them being an actual danger to anything. The whole process of moving from Cryx to Circle has left me needing to reevaluate every enemy unit and it’s a slow and painful process. The Bloodweavers advance up the middle and the heavies line up but I don’t push them up far enough and those two inches I’m missing is going to cause problems later.

The Great Bears advance a member and kills two Pillars (duh). This allows the IFP to get a man charging the Gallows Grove but it makes it with a box left. The others run in to engage the Woldstalkers which was perfect for me. The Widowmakers take a heavy toll on the right flank Woldstalkers and I have nothing to show for it. Butcher pops Iron Flesh on the IFP and it’s my turn.

The Gorax takes out some IFP after the Bloodweavers dispel and destroy a significant part of the unit. I was actually going to go for an assassination attempt with the Ravagers this round since he left Butcher open, but I forgot my own plan and ran up some Bloodweavers to stop him from counter charging. This was part of the plan but I should have had a Wayfarer activate first and Hunter’s Mark Butcher so the Ravagers could actually reach him, but since I engaged him he was at defense 18 instead. I considered spending Mohsars turn doing SoF three times to remove both of them and flee afterwards, but I still needed to roll 7+ with the Wayfarer and spending 6 Fury and three friendly models for a try at 7+ seemed like a poor tactic. Instead I got Curse of Shadows on the Marauder and Sprint up on Ghetorix and sent him in.

Ghetorix trounced the Marauder with Fury to spare and sprinted away, but my lack of experience with Circle made me sprint to the wrong location again and the Swamp Gobbers were unable to cover LoS from the Great Bears, so if he could move the Bloodweavers he would have a shot at Ghetorix. I had the Ravagers all lined up to go and if they didn’t go they’d be raped by the WG the following round so I might as well make him fight on his side. The Wardog made it’s tough check, the Juggernaut got taken down to half, and one WG member died (this unit is not making me happy). The Woldstalkers on the right made a WG take a tough check, but the Woldstalkers on the left Zephyred out of melee and reduced the IFP drastically. Then I made a huge mistake and placed the Stalker in the right zone, except I somehow got myself confused by all the green tokens on the table and placed him between the zones instead which pretty much cost me the game.

On his turn Gorman walks up and Acid bombs all the Bloodweavers that were in the way of the Great Bears (Uh oh!), then Butcher feats and his mechanics walk up and swing at the remaining Pillar. It was dice -10 on 3d6 and if it didn’t work he would be screwed, but it did so I was screwed instead.

IFP fail badly on the Gorax but he wasn’t really needed in this game anyway. The Great Bears ultra own Ghetorix. The Ravagers go down to a hail of bullets and sprays leaving just one of them alive, and because of my wayward Stalker he gets a point and since it takes just two points to win I’m now in deep shit with very limited options.

My Stalker takes out the damaged Juggernaut but then fails miserably against the Dragoon and leaves it alive. The Ravager AGAIN fails what should have been a killing spree (I’m thinking I need better control over Circle as a whole before I begin playing them for real). The left flank Woldstalkers and the Gorax clean up almost every IFP there is left. I’m in pretty deep shit but I’m thinking I can handle the loss of the Stalker to the WG since neither of us have any heavies, and that’s when I realize I’ve abandoned the left zone and he just has to kill a Gallows Grove to win. He does so and we shake hands.

Post match

I think this game was a lot closer than the last one. First of all he would have lost if his mechanics had failed to kill the Pillar but I didn’t AFFF (Account For Fucking Feat) and it was a major setback. I didn’t place the Stalker in the zone which was another major setback, but unlike the pKrueger game I felt I had a shot at winning this.

I can’t help thinking that Circle is a Faction that is basically designed around doing something that WM/H doesn’t support, and that movement tricks is worth very little in a world of scenario plays. I very rarely lose to Circle when I play Cryx, and it’s because most Circle tricks are so hilariously obvious and anyone that knows them can easily counter them. This is in stark contrast to the general idea that Circle is a tricky faction because they aren’t, and winning with Circle requires some unknown factor that still eludes me (well, or playing one of the top tier warlocks but you know me… I’d rather whine online).

I need to learn the proper places to sprint when possible. I need some way to handle massed enemy infantry. I liked Woldstalkers but they’re vulnerable to bad match-ups so the jury is out on them. I need some hard hitting infantry and I need more ways to poke at my opponent. Luckily since I lost I get to make a better list again!

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15 Responses »

  1. Think I’m going to try this list next time.

    Mohsar the Desertwalker
    – Ghetorix
    – Megalith
    – Warpwolf Stalker
    Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
    Tharn Bloodweavers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
    Blackclad Wayfarer
    Blackclad Wayfarer
    Druid Wilder
    Gallows Grove
    Gallows Grove

    Still not sure what to do about Infantry Spam but Circle has no real generalist units that work (people keep saying Bloodtrackers but they’re really not cutting it against heavies since they rely on Prey to get the job done).

  2. Not sure Nyss will be any better for what you want then bloodtrackers or 2x Woldstalkers. I guess you can do CRAs, but then you’ll be making far fewer attacks overall.

    Have you considered Gatorman Posse? You can pray for rerolls against high def living infantry, or use CoS via Mohsar/Megalith to up their damage against a high armor target.

    • They’re not there to do CRAs but because they’re one of the few all-purpose units Circle has access to and that’s a big deal.

      They’ve got RAT 6 and with Megalith they can clear out infantry within 5″ of him at RAT 8, RAT 10 with aiming (and RNG 12 is about the sweet spot for aiming). With POW 10 they clear light infantry on average dice and with CoS they reach the POW 12 sweet spot where you kill most single wound infantry.

      This is combined with their high speed and weapon master, which means that they can do some serious damage to heavies as well, and with access to Hunter’s Mark they out-threat most heavies in the game. This means that I have a unit in the game that can go up against anything and have a shot at handling it.

      I’m not saying it will work, but my style of play has always been general purpose units, and Circle is giving me fits because everyone is a specialist so opponents can rip apart a list by removing just whats dangerous to him.

      I haven’t considered Gatormen but I am now… I’ll get back to you on that.

  3. I’m also looking really hard at Bone Grinders. Those guys seem incredibly potent and very useful to keep Sprint after the Stalker dies. They’re also super accurate with their single magic attack, and dirt cheap to boot. The additional range on spells might also come in handy when the Gallows Groves get stomped.

  4. I think the gatormen is a great all purpose unit with their prayers and abilities. Pretty ok stats and a good 12″ threat range with blood thirst and reach. Two PS 13 attacks if you can get them into non reach range. Can support itself with either rerolls, pathfinder or the +1 DEF and terror. Quite hard to remove with unyielding and 8 boxes. DEF 13 with the DEF and terror prayer is ofc not in the high end, but it’s still high enough that stuff sometimes misses :)

    I’m not familiar with what Circle has to offer them, but I think it’s a really good unit just on it’s own.

    • The damage output is just a bit low for my definition of an all-purpose unit. Without Curse of Shadows the full unit of Gatormen won’t even take a Juggernaut past half it’s health, and with CoS and both attacks from each model it just barely reaches average dice, and is about 5-6 points from what I use as my safe zone.

  5. Yes the damage output could be better ofc. They can hurt a heavy, but I don’t think that’s what you take them for. They are better at killing various kinds of infantry and being difficult to remove imo :)

    • But that’s exactly the problem I’m having in the first place. I play by water theory and a faction with nothing but specialist units is about as wet as the Sahara Desert. I’m used to having a working list with 25% of my army left because everything can dual-task, and with Circle it’s “lose that piece and you lose the game“.

      I even read a whole bunch of Will Paganis battle reports and listened to some interviews but it it always comes down to the fact that he either plays perfectly, his opponents hands him the game, or he loses. I read Jamie Perkins reports from his Circle experiment and he also lost by making one mistake that had absolutely nothing to do with his caster, and couldn’t even really be called a mistake since it was mainly slightly sub-par dice.

      Having spent the last year constructing lists that don’t really care about sub-par dice and ignores most mistakes you make, it’s hard adjusting to this kind of living on the edge. My strength lies in list construction and abusing opponents mistakes, while Circle requires you do adapt and force those mistakes actively, and I think it will take a long time until I begin winning consistently (if ever).

  6. Mohsar the Desertwalker
    – Gorax
    – Megalith
    – Warpwolf Stalker
    Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
    Farrow Bone Grinders (Leader and 3 Grunts)
    Farrow Bone Grinders (Leader and 3 Grunts)
    Wolves of Orboros (Leader and 9 Grunts)
    – Wolf of Orboros Officer & Standard
    Blackclad Wayfarer
    Blackclad Wayfarer
    Druid Wilder
    Gallows Grove
    Gallows Grove

    Usually I would be hard pressed to justify a Gorax for just one living beast, but with the Bone Grinders available I can play him very aggressively and then he should do well. I’ll have some serious Fury issues and no way to avoid or remove debuffs in this list, so it remains to be seen how well it works.

    Thinking about Circle lists makes my head go owie!

  7. You probably right. My knowledge about Circle is very limited. But your problem here is that you don’t have anything that can handle both infantry and heavies right? I’m not totally sure I completely understand this issue, but the way I see it, there’s more ways of handling heavies than just killing them for instance.

    Now I haven’t really begun playing with my gators yet, only having played 3 games I think, and none of them were 50pts. They suffer from a similar situation, lacking model choices for various roles. The general opinion on the blindwater forum is that even though we need more releases, the faction is still playable, and with a bit of creativity you can come a long way. If you can’t kill high armoured stuff with POW 17 you should try something else, be that throws, slams, disruption by a thrullg or boxing the model in with medium bases that are hard to kill.

    You have probably already thought about this stuff, and like I said, my knowledge about Circle is very limited, or maybe I just totally misunderstood what you meant :)

    • No you’re completely on the money. The problem is exactly that Circle has other ways of handling heavies and that takes active thinking.

      Cryx: You killed some things I didn’t care about, and I killed your best stuff, good game.

      Circle: I tossed/teleported/pushed/slammed your good stuff away, and now I have this shot at doing some harm, but if it fails I’m screwed because all I took from you was 1 Focus/Fury to shake the KD and now you’re back killing my dudes.

  8. I see what you mean. I can’t really think of anything wise to say here atm. Seems to be a very different play style from playing Cryx, but perhaps that’s also a good thing. I guess they are a very volatile faction that will blow up in your face if you don’t handle them correctly :) I do hope you figure something out :) I will be heading down this road as well when I start playing the gators for real ;)

    • Well, hopefully I’ll get a “eureka moment” sometime soon, but I’m not holding my breath. It’s giving some people at my club the opportunity to stomp me in the face for some sweet payback after being steamrolled by Cryx so it’s not all bad :D

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